What color is your roundie taillight center?

[Cabbage Fumes]

 

Do you have amber or red center lenses?

My early impression was 1600 was red, 2002 was amber, but later I learned that the US required red lenses so all US market 114s were supped to have red center lenses, and the rest of the world were amber. You almost never see red centers anywhere. Are there any original owners here in the US that got their car delivered with amber, or was that just a common modification to put Euro market amber lenses in, since red centers have been NLA for a while now.

[jgerock]

My 69 2002 has red.

[calw]

It's a early-red, late-amber thing. 

 

Hopefully, Herr Dr. Conserv can chime in to discuss the time of change over. 

 

My 1600-2 from early '68 has red.

[jp5Touring]

My 73 are Amber, no idea if this is correct.

 

[mac]

Mike Self knows.

 

Mac. 

[Conserv]

Exactly. U.S. cars got red early (from 1966), switching over to amber-center taillights in… well, I’m not certain. My very early ‘70 (built September 8, 1969) had red from new.

 

I pretty much expect any Modell ‘71 — the upgrade and “modernization” which began April 1971 — to have both amber-center taillights and “bulge” front turn signals.

 

But… BMW’s lighting changes tend to occur only when the U.S. DOT requires it, and generally at the last possible minute. So I’m reluctant to believe that BMW switched over in April 1971. I do believe that all 1972 model year cars received amber-center taillights. So maybe the changeover occurred around January 1, 1970, or January 1971.

 

Calling @Mike Self: clean up in the lighting aisle!

 

Best regards and a Merry Christmas!

 

Steve

 

[Schnellvintage]

This was copied from the Production Run article by @Mike Self .  

Here you go.

 

Matt

 

 

 

May 1969 US automatic production begins at VIN 2530001; about 1000 built in the 1969 model year. Automatics have clocks instead of tachometers.

 

Sept 1969 US 1970 BMW 2002 model production begins at approximately VIN 1668756 for stick, 2531023 for automatics, 1569647 for BMW 1600s. Again, not all the changes below were initiated at the quoted VINs.

• Rear turn signal lenses changed to amber
• Front turn signal lenses bulge outward and use a single two-filament bulb
• Optional alloy wheels were introduced; they have five slots divided by radial ribs and are 5x13 inch versions of the 14 inch CS coupe alloys. Initially offered on the ti models, they were not readily available in the US until the tii was introduced to the US market for the 1972 model year
• Silver paint was eliminated on the wheel covers, now polished stainless steel; the valve stem now has its own dedicated round hole vs the small cutout used on the painted wheel covers.
• Front seatbacks narrowed
• Windshield wiper blades lengthened to 15 inches; previously 13 inches
• Outside rearview mirror enlarged at VIN 1671845 and 2532051 (automatics)—the “trapezoid” mirror
• Side grilles have black anodized appliques glued over the grille bars vs. the black paint used on earlier BMW 2002s.

[Cabbage Fumes]

And apparently red center rears were a North American thing. Amber was installed from the beginning everywhere else. 

[Mike Self]

6 hours ago, mac said:

Mike Self knows.

Red centers on pre "destined for the US" models (prior to 1968 model year) if they were shipped directly to the US and not bought on overseas delivery (military/diplomatic sales).  

 

US only cars (1600s with VINs beginning with 1560001, 2002s, 1660001):  1968 and 1969 model years have red centers;  from '70 on, they're amber.

 

The factory parts book doesn't show a cutoff VIN between red and amber centers.

 

mike

[Cabbage Fumes]

The ETK shows red center lenses from March '66 to August '73 for all US 2002s and 1600s (1600-2s). It also shows that early EU 1602s were amber, and later 1602s came in both amber and red. All EU 2002s were amber.

This is all according to the ETK, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually happened that way.

I'm guessing the 1602 red lenses were meant for some other country that like the US, required red lenses. I'm guessing though.

According to BMW, amber was only available to the EU market cars, which means if you go to the dealer and try to order an amber lens, you would need an EU VIN, if they would even order it at all.

The Penski owned dealers here in SoCal removed the EU market parts catalogs a few years ago, so now if you went to the dealer and wanted to order replacement lenses for your US car, they would say nope, NLA (eventhough the amber ones still show available in the ETK).

Edited December 25, 2023 by Furry Camel

[Conserv]

14 hours ago, Mike Self said:

Red centers on pre "destined for the US" models (prior to 1968 model year) if they were shipped directly to the US and not bought on overseas delivery (military/diplomatic sales).  

 

US only cars (1600s with VINs beginning with 1560001, 2002s, 1660001😞 1968 and 1969 model years have red centers;  from '70 on, they're amber.

 

The factory parts book doesn't show a cutoff VIN between red and amber centers.

 

mike

 

Thank you, Mike!

 

I do believe that early 1970 model year ‘02’s — possibly even all those manufactured within the 1969 calendar year — received red taillights, and probably flush front turn signals.

 

My evidence? BMW generally instituted U.S. DOT and EPA requirements reluctantly and at the latest possible date, dates which generally fell in January of a given year. And my September 8th, 1969-manufactured 1970 had both red-center taillights and flush front turn signals. I still have that car’s original taillights, with their August 13, 1969 manufacturing dates (first and second photos below). “So, Steve, why do you have those taillights from a car you sent to the crusher in 1974?” Well, because I swapped the original red-center taillights for amber-center taillights and the original flush turn signals for bulge turn signals in 1973, part of my plan to modernize my 1970!
 

Then I sent my ‘70 to the crusher (third photo below)!

 

Slim evidence perhaps. But that’s my story, at least for now!
 

Best regards and Merry Christmas,

 

Steve

 

[AceAndrew]

Mine and the other early Jan/Feb/March 1971 cars I'm familiar with had the amber centers.  This matches the batch of early roundies I've inspected from the CoupeKing stash along with feedback from a few old timers.

 

So the cross over from red to amber occured PRIOR to the Type-114 to Model 71 changes in April 1971.

[jgerock]

An odd assortment of features was on a Nevada 71 2002 I inspected in PA.

6 fuses

knee trim

long console with square shift boot

emergency knob in left cubby

Model 71 dash cluster

amber center lights

small heater valve

chrome seat hinges

 

[jimk]

8-71 build, red center.

[James Laray]

My 69 2002 purchased at Eueler BMW in Frankfurt in August 1969 had the red dots.   Alas, car was rear ended  by a distracted, addled brained housewife driving a 76 Caprice on Rt 236 in Fairfax, Virginia in 1978 and the repair shop installed replacement orange dots.  Lindsey Brown gave me a pair of red dots a few years back, and so we are now back to the red dots.      Some learned bimmer sage told me along the way that BMW phased out the red dots, and in 1970 (ish) some cars had the orange dots and some had the red dots.   My first 2002 (hooptie) which was a late 69 build, but registered as a 70 by Hoffman had the red dots.  I've seen other 70 models with orange dots.  

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by James Laray