How's this for a BaT Unicorn?

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, HENRYNBMW said:

If you look at every historical reference to Alpina A4s engine the maximum horsepower quoted is 170. 
195  hp is a pipe dream.

Engine on display at Alpina. Sign says 160 ps about 153 hp. For last version in E21.

Maybe Oldenzaal dyno… 😉

 

 

 

 

[Dudeland]

11 minutes ago, 2002iii said:

If you look at the link in the comments to the Sotheby's auction and the build sheet just added by the seller you'll see the stripes and Alpina everywhere was added recently along with the alpina stripes on the seats.

Are they there to replicate the original markings, or are they advertisements?

 

[2002iii]

8 minutes ago, Dudeland said:

Are they there to replicate the original markings, or are they advertisements?

 

Since they don't have any original documents from Alpina we don't know. I would say they probably aren't replicating original.

[02Les]

BAT auction pics 174 & 175 records Oldenzaal’s work. So the graphics and interior change was, in fact, 2021.

 

Prior to this current auction, the last I heard, the car was for sale Oct ’20 by Scotti Srl, Bergamo, Italy for €98k. Wonder if Oldenzaal paid that much.

 

Would be nice to know the date of the bodywork BAT pics 167 thru 172.

[markmac]

They may not have the build sheets from Alpina, I do though....haha (190/195 hp is trash.  170).  

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, Dudeland said:

Are they there to replicate the original markings, or are they advertisements?

 

They are pure marketing…

 

[Get2theBimmah]

1 hour ago, Dudeland said:

Are they there to replicate the original markings, or are they advertisements?

 

that's where it makes up its extra 25hp 

[Leucadian]

I'm always astounded about how little I know about these cars compared to the learned elite on this forum...

[mccusername]

Still no evidence that Alpina did anything to this car. It has an Alpina engine-- which is cool-- but who knows who installed it? Was the car delivered to Buchloe? Was it sent to Alpina after it was purchased? Did an Alpina-authorized shop convert it in period? Or did someone find a motor and stick it in a Tii? If really from Alpina, there would be paperwork laying out all the work and options.

I love Alpina stripes almost anywhere-- but not this car. Was much better looking a few years ago. The seats are literally from an E21-- Alpina would have used Recaro Idealsitz N (with no E21 markings). Extra instruments are not... good.

I think the 195hp was a misprint one time in some magazine and has been claimed by some ever since. For one, that's SAE. For two, it's nonsense.

The plastic Alpina badge on the dash was given to people who ordered a full Alpina suspension-- negative camber struts, springs, adjustable roll bars front and rear. 

It's still a really cool car underneath, I'm just pissed they made it so ugly.
 

[Dudeland]

14 hours ago, markmac said:

They may not have the build sheets from Alpina, I do though....haha (190/195 hp is trash.  170).  

So did the HP come from the cam and valvetrain?  10.0 cr isn't that much.  FI or not ITBs don't pull that much I don't think.  

 

 

 

 

[02Les]

The current Seller states a repaint was done in Italy 2017-2018.

 

The picture below is from the 2016 Sotheby's auction when the car was reportedly still in Turkey; you can see the seams above the headlight indicating replacement fenders at least, and, no doubt a required repaint.

 

I'm thinking there is more to this car to be discovered.

 

[mccusername]

1 hour ago, Dudeland said:

So did the HP come from the cam and valvetrain? 

‘Regular’ A4 had a 300 degree cam and the Alpina ITBs, bigger intake and exhaust valves, plus balancing/porting/polishing. 160hp. 
 

A4S added higher compression semi-hemispherical domed pistons and head work to match.  170hp. 
 

I think a 320 degree cam was possible though very rare. That may be where the 195hp wishful thinking number came from. 

[markmac]

Like I said, I have the build sheet(s).  It was built by Alpina (at Alpina).  I communicated with the original owner a LOOOOng time ago, before it got flipped 5x.  I buy into the 170hp, that car has the 129.10 Alpina pump, I don't believe they would make the claim if they couldn't back it up.  I want to say the car started out with the Lux options, maybe I have some pics somewhere.  Funny these folks don't seem to have these.

[mccusername]

Wait, Marc, you have the Alpina build sheet for the car that’s for sale on BAT? Might I suggest you reach out and offer to sell the paperwork to them for $10,000 or so?🤣

 

170hp seems right but the BAT car is claiming 195. Have they added pictures of the 129 pump?

[markmac]

I do, no I won't be reaching out to them.  No pics of the 129 pump that I saw, the seller likely doesn't even know what that is (or what it means).

 

As far as that claim on that motor - ridiculous (stupid).  Alpina built 'a' car in 1975 that they claimed made 190bhp.  Aside from the 129.10 pump, it had 11:1 hemi pistons (& head), 4 throttle injection, 47/39mm valves and an Alpina 320 degree cam (basically a full race cam they used on slide injected motors), header etc.,  They apparently only built one.