Looking for Info on Scheel Seats

[AustinOski]

I’m hoping some experts can chime in here. I bought a couple of seats and am wanting to make sure I know what I have.

1. From posts I’ve read it seems like these are 401’s. Maybe 401 Rallye’s? They seem to have the larger upper side bolsters. One has a tag that denotes Type: 4 and KBA 900 12. If there were other numbers after the 4, they are gone. Are they 401’s?

2. Seller claimed they are a pair. They are very similar, but not exactly the same. The one on the right seems to have very slightly deeper uppder side bolsters. I think! I have been staring at them and they are slightly different. Most dimensions are the same, but a few are not. One seat might be 1/3-1/2 wider in a spot. Maybe they are different, maybe they were re-upholstered and they each were changed ever so slightly (stuffed a bit more or less). Same seats or different? Same model, different year? Or, were there production differences within the same model?

3. They both have the recline lever on the left and the fold forward lever (for rear seat access) on the right (when sitting in the seat). Does that mean they are both driver’s seats, since you’d want the fold forward on the outboard side? I’ve read (and seen pictures) that show pairs being exactly the same. Some have said they are both passenger or driver side, others have said on some models there is not distinction and they were made the same. 

4. Are there any sources for the side covers? Seems I read a while ago that some folks on e9coupe had some 3D printed, so checking over there, too. 

Oh, and, not 100% sure what I’m doing with them. Probably going in one of two 2002’s. They are much more comfortable, to me, than the E21 Recaros I have in one. The other has comfy no-name sport seats. No name, because I don’t know what the name is. Posted pics here last year and no on could identify them.

Thanks in advance!

 

Attachments

[Greg R aka Big_Lebowski]

@zinz might can help you with those questions.  

[AustinOski]

Thanks @Greg R aka Big_Lebowski. I’ll hit him-up.

[zinz]

11 hours ago, AustinOski said:

I’ll hit him-up.

 

We talked a bit about these as you were looking to purchase them.  I'm certainly no Scheel expert... Hopefully, others will chime in.  Maybe @uai can shed some light?

 

Ed

[AustinOski]

That we did. You called it. Maybe.  Different seats and maybe not a set? I still can’t tell, hence the online investigation!

[Conserv]

23 hours ago, AustinOski said:

… They both have the recline lever on the left and the fold forward lever (for rear seat access) on the right (when sitting in the seat). Does that mean they are both driver’s seats, since you’d want the fold forward on the outboard side?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I believe they are Scheel 401’s. Although they are notoriously comfortable and supportive, you might want to test fit them in your ‘02’s. Although they fit, some ‘02 owners who have formerly run with Scheel 401’s have found them to be visually “big” in an ‘02: tall backrests, enormous shoulders, and large bolsters all over. 
 

Although a fold-forward lever is ideally found on the outboard side — thus, a fold-forward on the right side is generally a right seat (i.e., a passenger seat in LHD jurisdictions) — I believe lots of users, over the years, have been not too fussy about respecting that convention. I’ve found, and even bought, Recaro pairs of this era that consisted of two same-handed seats, through years of use. If you’re OCD as I am, you figure out how to convert one side to the other side (usually by swapping recliners, but first you must find the “correct” ones).

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[AustinOski]

@Conserv I mis-wrote. They have the recline levers on the left side, so they are both driver’s seats. I did finally find a picture of a true pair. So, they are “sided”.

 

I’d prefer a real set, but I think it might be easier to find a passenger seat than just the reclining hardware for these seats. Hard enough to to find one of these, much less the hardware. But, you never know! I found these.

[Conserv]

On 10/25/2022 at 5:47 PM, AustinOski said:

@Conserv I mis-wrote. They have the recline levers on the left side, so they are both driver’s seats. I did finally find a picture of a true pair. So, they are “sided”.

 

I’d prefer a real set, but I think it might be easier to find a passenger seat than just the reclining hardware for these seats. Hard enough to to find one of these, much less the hardware. But, you never know! I found these.

So, as with late ‘60’s / early ‘70’s Recaros, you might find that driver’s seats far out-number passenger seats. Buyers did not always buy pairs — the seats were relatively expensive and your passenger might not be a regular passenger… 😋

 

The right-seat recliners for my Recaro Sportsitz S came not from Recaro seats but from stock 1973 911 seats (apparently also manufactured by Recaro). I don’t know if there are similar users of Scheel recliners.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[mccusername]

I think these seats on the UK forum are very similar to yours:

https://www.02forum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14984

 

PM me if you need hinges like the ones in these pictures. I might be able to hook you up with someone who can 3D print reproductions.

 

[JohnP_02]

On 10/24/2022 at 5:47 PM, AustinOski said:

Seller claimed they are a pair. They are very similar, but not exactly the same

 

In my limited experience with trying to find a "matching" set of vintage seats I would say good luck. There are so many slight variations with the manufacturing of period seats its almost impossible to find two that are exactly the same. The most likely exception being a pair bought by an original owner. There are differences even within models from early years and later years, especially once Scheel became Scheelmann. Like most products they evolved slightly over time. I think yours look pretty close.

 

[AustinOski]

@JohnP_02 - I think you’re right, judging by the many photos and ads I’ve seen. Once re-upholstered and installed, only @zinz would notice they are different (he has an amazing eye for detail). 

 

I need to get my driver’s seat in my Fjord square tail repaired, so I’m going to put the better of these in and make sure I have all the right mounting pieces. I’m going to sell the Porsche/CSL mounting rails.

 

Now, I need to find some regular/stock 2002 rails. The roundie these are going into has some no-name seats and “custom” mounts/rails.k

[mccusername]

These things sit pretty high, I would use the flat brackets made by @eurotrash.

[AustinOski]

Okay @mccusername  I’ll keep that in mind. I have the Aardvark adapters from my Recaros so I’ll use those for now and then figure out what adjustment I need.
 

I am more of an upright sitting guy, so they might work. Stay tuned!

[Paul Rubia]

On 10/25/2022 at 2:13 PM, Conserv said:

Yes, I believe they are Scheel 401’s. Although they are notoriously comfortable and supportive, you might want to test fit them in your ‘02’s. Although they fit, some ‘02 owners who have formerly run with Scheel 401’s have found them to be visually “big” in an ‘02: tall backrests, enormous shoulders, and large bolsters all over. 
 

Although a fold-forward lever is ideally found on the outboard side — thus, a fold-forward on the right side is generally a right seat (i.e., a passenger seat in LHD jurisdictions) — I believe lots of users, over the years, have been not too fussy about respecting that convention. I’ve found, and even bought, Recaro pairs of this era that consisted of two same-handed seats, through years of use. If you’re OCD as I am, you figure out how to convert one side to the other side (usually by swapping recliners, but first you must find the “correct” ones).

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Hi!  

I have a set of Scheel 400 Rallyes and both have fold-forward levers on left as well.

Doesn't bother me a bit or even when I have an occasional passenger.

Only thing thing that really bugs is entry into rear seating for anyone other than my grandkids!!

I need to find a tilt mechanism one day.  I know they exist for early Porsche 911's and they are pricey.

Best seats ever!  I've had Peter Z Vintage Seats in my early 911, nice but no where near a comfortable.

As far as sliders go, I don't remember if they came off an 02 already because they bolted right in.  I got them years ago from @RacingAli, he even threw in hard to find upholstery enough to do both seats!   

Enjoy!

[AustinOski]

@Paul Rubia - Thanks. Looks nice. Can I get a pic of your mounting brackets?