123 Imploded - Reasonable Guesses Welcome !!!

[Black2002]

Sunday Morning Spirited Drive. 600 mi on new engine...dyno tuned..32/36...jetted perfectly and 123 Dist w/ Faq setting ...595 miles of pure driving bliss!

Up a tall bridge....Lets play with WOT! (4K rpm and up)  oh to hear it roar! ....love this car!!!!

1st....clogged fuel filter....ya know when bad....heavy acceleration doesn't exist...light ..feather it up still works.......

2nd..downhill ditto again........

Toll Booth ....no idle.....accelerator pump for acceleration ...starts and runs w/ acceleration. 

Later at Garage: Idle ranges up and down......800 to 1900 rpm ....on it's own....check carb to manifold, manifold to engine...all is tight.

Looking at 123.....vacuum line intact...let's take off the cap.....hmmmmm...seeing what I see?

I think: too high rpms with distributor shaft out of round..( Bill you have to be wrong 123s are Perfect...they need no Customer Service!) 

OK, I'm wrong....I know ...engine distributor gear wasn't replaced on rebuild and it made 123 shaft go out of round and distributor  impeller tore up cap!

hmmm.. wouldn't it just be noisy with a sloppy (worn engine) gear connection?

Straight shaft equals symmetrical rotation...distributor impeller wouldn't score the walls of the cap!!!..if shaft were straight, that is.

Perhaps bad impeller....can I use any brand??

Perhaps bad cap..........can I use any cap????

Perhaps it's the distributor????? Accounts for rough idle, ranging rpms ......(sounds like let's rebuild the Bosch...clean and lubricate the plates.new bushings..would solve it).Itsa 123!

 

Oh I hate to change out a distributor to see if new one works!!!!

Yes, I broke out the Timing Light...to see if it advance were wacky......a possessed Weber Idle circuit..thinking not so likely.

Reset 123 ...black to red wire trick.

Couldn't find master erase reset instructions,  or How to: switch to default curves. Remove resident curves and reload.

 

So, What Happened:   ...?...

 

High RPMs - 1).  impeller lifts and drops below where it's meant to stay.

 

2). vibrations made cap jump out from rotational locking tab...causing all the above and then sitting back down after screwing the vacuum brain circuit. 

(author: I like this scenario.....but, it would still mean the distributor shaft was moving around....a lot !) 

 

Or .......perhaps someone knows how I can send this to 123 Tech service to get their opinion?

What's your thoughts!

Please Share!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lorin]

What is a distributor impeller? I am not familiar with this component.

 

If your cap came loose and the rotor hit the cap you have a chicken and egg situation. 
 

Did you measure the runout/play of the distributor shaft ?

['76mintgrün'02]

36 minutes ago, Black2002 said:

Perhaps bad impeller....can I use any brand??

Perhaps bad cap..........can I use any cap????

Perhaps it's the distributor?????

 

You need the proper cap and rotor for the 123.  Searching the forum will bring up information about that.  Using the wrong rotor can cause it to come loose and do damage. 

 

The clips that hold the cap on the 123 are malleable and easy to bend out of shape when pinching them back on.  That will allow the cap to come loose and do damage.

[Son of Marty]

Also weak or broken engine mounts can cause the distributer cap to hit the firewall pushing the cap into the rotor. I don't think I have ever seen a worn distributor drive gear on either end the cam or the distributor at least to any degree.

[tech71]

Another 123 dizzy wreaks havoc, So common now on the forum that its becoming a bit cliche.

It would appear that design should have been run across a few more drawing boards before release.

As for test beds... youse guys are it, apparently.

[dlacey]

1 hour ago, tech71 said:

Another 123 dizzy wreaks havoc

I think the 123s are reviving and re-activating slumbering 2002s and that exposes weak engine mounts, poor crankcase ventilation, spaghetti wiring & timing fumbles......

In automotive its always root cause...do your 5-Why analysis, your FMEA, etc....dont automatically blame the first thing that comes to mind  ? ?

 

[NickVyse]

a friends was doing this - turned out the body shop had replaced the firewall a bit closer to the front of the car and under hard acceleration the cap hit the body. Same as it might with buggered engine mounts. Thousands of happy customers don't post how great they are every day. But they are over priced for what they are (but I'd still buy another!)

[0257]

Check to see if the magnetic platform (the round plate inside the dizzy) has axial play — ie, if you can tilt it on its axis.  Mine developed this condition after only a few hundred miles and it scored and tore the inside of my cap much the same as yours did.  I sent it back to 123 and they rebuild it free of charge.  Ed at 123 turned it around pretty quick. 123ignitionusa.com

[Oldtimerfahrer]

20 hours ago, tech71 said:

Another 123 dizzy wreaks havoc, So common now on the forum that its becoming a bit cliche.

It would appear that design should have been run across a few more drawing boards before release.

As for test beds... youse guys are it, 

I have seen a few complaints, but your statement is exaggerated. I have heard the discourse on the design and the quality of the components.  Its like ikea furniture, just works but not pretty. I have three, been "testing" one more than ten years, no havoc and no other crappy breakerless setups or rebuilt distributor woes. It is easy to set up and works better than the other setups I have had in the past. I don't work for them, I use them and have never had a problem. One runs in a Land Rover, that is subject to off-road conditions but no abuse. I had problems with mine hitting the firewall too, but that was my fault and rectified by myself. Not sure knocking the product is constructive here.

Andrew

[Black2002]

Thanks for all the insights, everyone.

Update: Ed Madak, of 123 USA....has respnded....rapidly.... and the distributor will be sent to Ohio for pro-analysis.

......meanwhile.....out from a non descript plastic bag... a 170 164 JFU4! The original Bosch Distrib. for my '76!

Long ago, Sent to Advanced Distributors. in Minnesota for rebuild. Clean! Shiny........and now,  Installed.

 

WOW!

 

 Coool comparison of baseline....man 'O man is that Bosch solid!  Reminds me of my old car.......

...makes me want to play more with the 123!..I do love setting the advance higher at idle ( thanks FAQ info)!

I really now, underestimate how much one can play with a 123 curves and the fun of the Bosch originality!

 

123...I get manufactured stuff: mostly all is good...but then there's those ....

Feedback helps a manufacturer know what to change. Like the quality of spring clip to hold the cap down...higher tensile strength or hardened or soomething ....

 

I'll report what Ohio has to say.....

 

Stay tuned....... (full pun intended)