Piston Slap?

[Sahara]

Is it really healthy to chase little noises at cold start like this? They’re old cars. I’m asking for myself, not the OP, as I tend to be a worrier. 

[TobyB]

5 minutes ago, Sahara said:

Is it really healthy to chase little noises at cold start like this? They’re old cars. I’m asking for myself, not the OP, as I tend to be a worrier. 

If you're sure they're getting worse, yes, it is...

And you can simply listen every time it starts-

you'll get an 'additive picture' of what's going on.

Eventually, the dots will connect, and you'll figure it out.

And then decide if it's needing repair.

 

If it's always been that way, maybe not so much.

 

t

optimistically

[Inka’d02]

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

If you're sure they're getting worse, yes, it is...

And you can simply listen every time it starts-

you'll get an 'additive picture' of what's going on.

Eventually, the dots will connect, and you'll figure it out.

And then decide if it's needing repair.

 

If it's always been that way, maybe not so much.

 

t

optimistically

Thanks, I shot a hot video tonight when I got home. I will do a cold in the morning so you guys can get a better feel. I have owned a lot of 2002s and am quite sure this is not healthy. But thanks so much for the input.

[Hans]

Did you bleed the chain tensioner piston?

[AceAndrew]

3 hours ago, Inka’d02 said:

They were a new set of max-sil pistons and cylinders were re-bored.

 

 

 

These are well known (measured a couple sets myself) to have relatively high diameter variances.  If your machinist bore out all the holes to one size, then you will have a number of different piston/bore clearance numbers.  However, this should have been apparent within a reasonably short time of being rebuilt.

 

I like the rod end bushings theory.

[Inka’d02]

13 hours ago, Hans said:

Did you bleed the chain tensioner piston?

yes

[Inka’d02]

14 hours ago, AceAndrew said:

 

These are well known (measured a couple sets myself) to have relatively high diameter variances.  If your machinist bore out all the holes to one size, then you will have a number of different piston/bore clearance numbers.  However, this should have been apparent within a reasonably short time of being rebuilt.

 

I like the rod end bushings theory.

Videos  below 

 

 

Thanks

[Mark92131]

Warm engine sounds pretty normal, cold engine sounds like a loose valve train.  When was the last time you adjusted the valves and what valve lash did you use?  Could also be timing chain slop, any deflection in the timing chain?

 

Mark92131

Edited August 3, 2019 by Mark92131

[Inka’d02]

1 hour ago, Mark92131 said:

Warm engine sounds pretty normal, cold engine sounds like a loose valve train.  When was the last time you adjusted the valves and what valve lash did you use?  Could also be timing chain slop, any deflection in the timing chain?

 

 

Checked the valves last week. All good

[2002Scoob]

I echo what Mark mentions... Warm sounds OK, although at the beginning of the vid it seems like there's still a bit of a clacky sound going on around the 8 sec mark... at least more than what I'm used to hearing on my car. 

 

It almost sounds like the same noise at the beginning of your warm-video that I'm hearing in the cold, it's just that the RPM's are lower. As an experiment, have you tried to drop your idle when warm and see if the noise is still there, but being masked by the higher idle speed? 

 

If ya haven't gotten around to getting a mechanic's stethascope, pull off your oil cap and see if you can at least pinpoint if the sound is coming from the valvetrain or not. 

 

I'd also double-check your valve tolerances, maybe ya missed something. And as Mark asked, how much lash-clearance did you set? 

 

I think you mentioned that you'd checked the tensioner? It's easy to remove the valve-cover and try to compress the tensioner with a screwdriver, and confirm it's firm. 

 

Do you have a build-sheet from whoever did your motor? As mentioned before, if the builder didn't measure and match each bore to the piston, you can have a range of tolerances. But depending on your shop... I think that's pretty common knowledge and practice to do so. 

[Hans]

Was it a new tensioner? Did you clean the old one? Seems to me someone had that problem before of plugged tensioner hole(s). Stethoscope time but be very careful with engine running.

[tzei]

Sounds like pistons or conrods to me.

[Inka’d02]

2 hours ago, Hans said:

Was it a new tensioner? Did you clean the old one? Seems to me someone had that problem before of plugged tensioner hole(s). Stethoscope time but be very careful with engine running.

I was a used tensioner. I will look inyo that more today

[Inka’d02]

21 hours ago, 2002Scoob said:

I echo what Mark mentions... Warm sounds OK, although at the beginning of the vid it seems like there's still a bit of a clacky sound going on around the 8 sec mark... at least more than what I'm used to hearing on my car. 

 

It almost sounds like the same noise at the beginning of your warm-video that I'm hearing in the cold, it's just that the RPM's are lower. As an experiment, have you tried to drop your idle when warm and see if the noise is still there, but being masked by the higher idle speed? 

 

If ya haven't gotten around to getting a mechanic's stethascope, pull off your oil cap and see if you can at least pinpoint if the sound is coming from the valvetrain or not. 

 

I'd also double-check your valve tolerances, maybe ya missed something. And as Mark asked, how much lash-clearance did you set? 

 

I think you mentioned that you'd checked the tensioner? It's easy to remove the valve-cover and try to compress the tensioner with a screwdriver, and confirm it's firm. 

 

Do you have a build-sheet from whoever did your motor? As mentioned before, if the builder didn't measure and match each bore to the piston, you can have a range of tolerances. But depending on your shop... I think that's pretty common knowledge and practice to do so. 

So, at the same rpm hot as cold, you can here the noise but it is verrry muted. I do have a stethoscope but I can not isolate it. I checked the tensioner by using a syringe to pull the oil out of the cavity so I could see the tensioner piston. Using the screw driver, I can push it back and it returns to taught just fine. Seems like this is slap or bushing. I guess we will find out in the fall when I pull it out. Real bummer.

 

Thanks

[2002Scoob]

Ugh. Bummer man, sorry to hear. Was hoping you could diagnose to minor and not have to crack it apart :/


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