No start turned into bigger problems

[Einspritz]

Would you kindly tell us what the torque and the angle is?

 

Since the (non cometic) gaskets haven't changed design  since manufacture, I have never heard of this.  None of my service bulletins have any indication of it.

 

I thought that started with the M20 engines.

 

Thanks

[Buckeye]

This should explain better than I could

"ANGLE CONTROLLED TIGHTENING 
A tightening procedure in which a fastener is first tightened by a pre-selected torque (called the snug torque) so that the clamped surfaces are pulled together, and then is further tightened by giving the nut an additional measured rotation. Frequently bolts are tightened beyond their yield point by this method in order to ensure that a precise preload is achieved. Bolts of short length can be elongated too much by this method and the bolt material must be sufficiently ductile to cater for the plastic deformation involved. Because of the bolt being tightened beyond yield, its re-use is limited." 

Taken from here: http://www.boltscience.com/pages/glossary.htm

 

Not sure if Pdf document provided by link in my previous post reviewed or not . Here is snapshot of same document showing tightening procedure for M 10 engine along other engines

 

.

 

 

[Einspritz]

Thanks for that insight.

[Train67]

I did not get to pulling the head yet but I started it and took a video. It makes a knocking noise that doesn’t sound good. Any theories on what it could be?

Edited June 23, 2018 by Train67

[Buckeye]

Did you bleed chain tensioner piston?

 

['76mintgrün'02]

could be an exhaust leak.

they sound knocky sometimes.

[Einspritz]

I hear one valve out of adjustment, maybe two at that low rpm.

[Train67]

21 hours ago, Buckeye said:

Did you bleed chain tensioner piston?

 

Yes, just as the video shows. 

[Train67]

20 hours ago, Einspritz said:

I hear one valve out of adjustment, maybe two at that low rpm.

I was thinking the same and have checked clearance multiple times... but I’ll check again

[Train67]

Well I checked the valve adjustment again and nothing out of spec. Started the motor and noise is still there (no miracles here). I still have to pull the head to find out what’s going on with the coolant leaking past the head bolt but I would like to know more about this noise before tearing into it. The noise and coolant issue may be coming from the same problem but it’s hard to see how they relate.  I’m about to make a big move this summer so I’m hesitant about tearing things apart again right now but just may have to. 

[andyleonard]

Is your spray bar oiling? Could you have a loose pad on a rocker? Did the machine shop do anything to any of your valve seats? Do you have fancy springs that are coil binding? Are the cam lobes good? Was it a new cam or is it a grind using lash caps?

 

I'd find the noise, finish the head torque and run it to see if the leak stops. If you have to tear it down anyway....

[Train67]

Great suggestions. Spray bar is oiling. Rockers are new heavy duty from Ireland engineering and the pads look good. 3 angle valve job was done. Cam was ground by TEP but no lash caps. TEP didn’t mention anything about lash caps and I don’t know what they are. Care to enlighten me? Valve springs are “heavy duty street” from TEP. They have the wound flat steel spring in the center. Not my favorite design and I suppose could be suspect. Retainers are from IE. 

 

Im with you on finding the noise first.  I retorqued the head bolts using torque/angle but unfortunately coolant leak is still there. 

[andyleonard]

38 minutes ago, Train67 said:

 Rockers are new heavy duty from Ireland engineering and the pads look good. 

Cam was ground by TEP but no lash caps. TEP didn’t mention anything about lash caps and I don’t know what they are.

Valve springs are “heavy duty street” from TEP. They have the wound flat steel spring in the center. Retainers are from IE. 

 

If you had a bad rocker, the hard pad would be loose in the rocker and would make a noise like you have. Unlikely if they're new and hard to see. 

 

In the day, when a stock cam was reground on a new base circle to change the ramp and duration, the valve stems would end up seeming too short and little hardened hats (lash caps) would sit on top of each valve to keep the adjustment range. If you can adjust your valves then you don't need them.

 

Tough to tell from the video but it sounds like you have massively loose valve adjustments. Try a stethoscope or hose to identify which valves exactly are making the noise and take a closer look. If you were brave you could run it with VC off. Messy for such a clean job. If you can find the culprits, tighten them right up for a second and see what the noise does. I'm curious.

 

It looks like you are adjusting the valves by turning the little eccentrics in toward the center of the motor. Look at the contact point of eccentric to valve stem and see if the eccentric is centered on the stem...or almost. With that many different pieces from different stores it might be something stupid.

[Tommy]

5 hours ago, andyleonard said:

It looks like you are adjusting the valves by turning the little eccentrics in toward the center of the motor. Look at the contact point of eccentric to valve stem and see if the eccentric is centered on the stem...or almost.

 

That might be it! It looks that the eccentrics may be installed wrong way. They should be so that tightening the gap you're turning the hole outwards.

[Simeon]

Didn’t someone have problems with misalignment between valves and eccentric due to using badly installed rocker locks?