engine and drivetrain Most Reliable/best Current Source For Electronic Ignition?

[KFunk]

OK, so I'm pretty sure my ebay special 'Hot Spark' crapped out yesterday (edit: I don't think it did die, it was just a matter of a short on the tach wire that fed positive current to negative side of coil), at a very inconvenient time (bad headache and cold outside).   I haven't swapped points back in yet, because I wasn't in the mood and a AAA tow doesn't cost me anything.

I really don't want this to happen again, at all.  Sure, I'll keep a spare set of points/module in the car if necessary, but nobody wants to coast to the side of the highway and change them, when you have better things to do.     

 

I would've originally went with Pertronix, but they're getting really pricey (like $145 from IE), and I've read a lot of recent reports of them randomly going bad for no reason.  It seems like the old ones were reliable, but maybe quality control has went downhill on recent ones.  

 

I would trust points the most, as they never let me down for 6+ years.  Would it be that horrible to run a well-built dual 40DCOE engine with 292 cam/9.5:1 with points?  It seems like everyone is against that, but I've ran points with dual carbs for around 4 years and had no problems.  I just decided to go all out with the fresh rebuild, and finally went electronic.  Would I actually lose horsepower with points?  It didn't seem like I was lacking any power with points before. 

 

What about the Crane optical unit?  and which one?  Anybody ever have any failures?  I thought that company went out of business, but has someone else picked it up now?  And are they making good products?  What's the cheapest source for them currently?

 

I'm tempted by Top End's Ultimate Spark Package, but damn, that's a lot of money.

http://www.racetep.com/02ign.html

Edited April 23, 2014 by KFunk

[Emyers]

BMW had no issue with points and condensor when the 2002Ti made its debut.  Dead nuts reliable and in step with the technology of the time.  One had to accept the fact that from the time it was installed and correctly set up it would start degrading.  No big deal....

Having said that, I installed the Crane XR-700 in 1993 and have never looked back.  I do, however, carry a set of points and condensor in my glove box just in case.  Amazon carries the Pertronix 1847v for $75.99 with free shipping.

 

Earl

74 02Lux

02 M Roadster

72 Volvo 1800ES w/Pertronix

[bnam]

Carry a spare hotspark.  Still cheaper than the Pertronix.  And easier to swap than putting points back in.

[mike472]

Talk to Jeff at advanced distributors and he'll tell you cars with points run better because the coil gets a better signal from points then it does from the pertronix ignition. I believe its true because after switching back to points I noticed the difference in the way the car ran. Sure it's a little hassle to set the dwell now and then, but with a capacitive discharge system like some of the older Delta units you run a minimal amount of current through the points which helps preserve the contacts and a little point grease on the cam(still have an old tube of Bosch lubricant meant for the points cam) they last a reasonably long time. With a spare set of points and condenser, cap rotor and plugs and a little dwell tester like Pat Allen's (or even a big one) you can get yourself out of most no run situations. Simple does the trick.

Edited March 24, 2014 by mike472

[bnam]

Hmmm...  Wonder why auto manufacturers switched to electronic when points were cheaper (and we know auto guys like cheap) AND better?

 

IME, points do not perform better than electronic ignition.  Well adjusted points will run as well until they start to wear.  And a well designed and reliable electronic ignition will stay adjusted and operate well for much longer than a set of points (the Magneti Marelli system on my 81 Fiat Spider did not require changing for over 20 years).

 

However, if/when they fail - pertronix/hotspark etc are not as widely available as the points - so keep a spare (electronic or points).

 

Byas

[71bmr02]

Points allow dwell setting, that allows coil to become saturated longer than with petronix (and likely hotspark,) and produce a longer duration spark.  You can find vintage dwell, tach, meters all day long, I bought mine at a yard sale for 5 bucks, a sears unit and in the day a good instrument.  It is just the ticket for tuning a points system.  One good upgrade is plug wires, if using points you can use stranded wires but may run into radio interference (often wondered what it does for these new radars LE uses)  but upgrading to spiral wound is just as good for street use. 

 

For everyday driving, points, condenser and bosch blue coil with built in resistor are best choice.  (I still carry a spare condenser, points, cap and rotor button as insurance; one to those "which ever part fails is the part you won't have in the spares box".  be prepared

[Emyers]

Hmmm...  Wonder why auto manufacturers switched to electronic when points were cheaper (and we know auto guys like cheap) AND better?

 

IME, points do not perform better than electronic ignition.  Well adjusted points will run as well until they start to wear.  And a well designed and reliable electronic ignition will stay adjusted and operate well for much longer than a set of points (the Magneti Marelli system on my 81 Fiat Spider did not require changing for over 20 years).

 

However, if/when they fail - pertronix/hotspark etc are not as widely available as the points - so keep a spare (electronic or points).

 

Byas

My guess would be emmissions requirements.....They were looking for a system that could not be monkeyed around with by the owners maintaining desired emissions levels.

Earl

Edited March 24, 2014 by Emyers

[KFunk]

Hmmm...  Wonder why auto manufacturers switched to electronic when points were cheaper (and we know auto guys like cheap) AND better?

 

 

I'd say because your average car buyer doesn't want to check their dwell angle every few thousand miles, whereas electronic ignition units can last a couple hundred thousand miles without a problem.  I don't mind the points because they're less likely to suddenly fail and leave you stranded (more of a slow death), and I don't mind checking them once in a while.   

 

I just wish the aftermarket manufacturers of electronic conversions could achieve the same kind of reliability as OEM car makers.  There's probably just less of a market with too much competition, and it forces them into cheap outsourcing of production and less quality control. 

 

I'm leaning towards the Crane from Summit Racing or Jeg's, and perhaps the XR3000 if it's only like $138.  Maybe I'll just keep a HotSpark as back up for that. 

 

Anyways, I'll likely try out points again in the next few days just to get it back on the road, and see how it does.

Edited March 24, 2014 by KFunk

[jimk]

Here is a somewhat heated discussion by guys who design these systems:

 

http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8475&highlight=inductive+coil

Here is a somewhat heated discussion by guys who design these systems:

 

http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8475&highlight=inductive+coil

[ray_]

Here is a somewhat heated discussion by guys who design these systems:

 

http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8475&highlight=inductive+coil

Here is a somewhat heated discussion by guys who design these systems:

 

http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8475&highlight=inductive+coil

 

 

Both links are the same

[skipsfcr]

Uh...yeah...points need a long dwell for anything close to a full burn because when in good shape and correctly adjusted they deliver maybe half the KV of electronic ignition.

[mike472]

There's a difference between a gadget you stick in your distributor to eliminate the points and a completely re-engineered distributor like the GM HEI distributors. They just didnt screw a new pickup into an old distributor like the Pertronix and call it a day. The gentlemen who noted that points don't really have a place around modern cars with factory engineered systems is correct. The operative words here are "factory engineered". I liked my old Allison ignition that used an infra red sensor that seemed to work great and never had a problem with. I already threw out one bad Pertronix unit and after talking to Jeff at Advance Distributors. I decided to use points for now. It helps that I have about 4 brand new ones I inherited along the way. I like the idea of being able to fix it on the side of the road without a hassle. What's that worth? Try that with your fancy pants ignitions.

Just so you don't think I'm a complete technophobe, I'm using EDIS4 on my other 02. Again, a completely engineered system from Ford.

[Emyers]

I'd say because your average car buyer doesn't want to check their dwell angle every few thousand miles, whereas electronic ignition units can last a couple hundred thousand miles without a problem.  I don't mind the points because they're less likely to suddenly fail and leave you stranded (more of a slow death), and I don't mind checking them once in a while.   

 

I just wish the aftermarket manufacturers of electronic conversions could achieve the same kind of reliability as OEM car makers.  There's probably just less of a market with too much competition, and it forces them into cheap outsourcing of production and less quality control. 

 

I'm leaning towards the Crane from Summit Racing or Jeg's, and perhaps the XR3000 if it's only like $138.  Maybe I'll just keep a HotSpark as back up for that. 

 

Anyways, I'll likely try out points again in the next few days just to get it back on the road, and see how it does.

  Ah...the good old days of trying to diagnose a dying or bad condensor after you just did a full tuneup.......

Earl

[jimk]

Both links are the same

Good ol delayed reaction of this board.  Hit post, wait a minute, nothing happens, hit post again and that's what happens.

Edited March 24, 2014 by jimk

[BillWilliams]

Just remember, a hot spark or Pertronix are not electronic ignitions, just a points replacement gadget. I like the Snakedriver, installed a Crane XR 700 years ago and have not looked back or fooled with it. I do carry spare parts though

Edited March 24, 2014 by BillWilliams