engine and drivetrain Best Dual Sidedraft Carb Setup?

[Kidasters]

Jim - do you still have my e-mail address?  Send me a note.  I'd like all of that.

 

On a side note, I didn't realize you were going to put a Tii engine in Oscar......

 

Toby/Marshall - yeah, I've been thinking about adding the wideband anyway.  I was going to try and use the "fasten seat belt" housing on the dash, but I think I might just add another gauge on the left side of the instrument cluster, in the small "change area".

 

What's the problem with the throttle linkage everyone talks about?  is it getting both carb sync'd at the same time?  

 

I need to find someone that can re-build my webers for me.  I know Top End does it, but I'm not sure they are the right answer.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Kidasters

[lilcphoto]

I have everything I need to swap over to DCOE's. I keep getting the itch right when I have $0 to spend on tuning and jets. Soon though, unless someone located around Oregon and is interested in helping me out.

 

It's all about the $$$

[TobyB]

 

What's the problem with the throttle linkage everyone talks about?

It's surprisingly difficult to get them to stay at the same place at idle, open the same amount at the same time, and NOT

get pinned against the carb body stop at WOT. (which can bend the throttle shafts.)

  Especially as the engine moves around.  I have one of those top- mounting

setups somewhere around here- the problem I saw with it was that it made it a lot harder to get the top off the carb.

Bigger deal on a race car than a street car, of course...

 

It's not impossible, it's just not exactly plug and play.

 

Oh, and the Synchrometer is worth every penny of the $65 it may be up to these days.

 

And what Byron said about jets- I probably have as much in the jets as I do into the carbs themselves.  And I only

have a 'working range', not a complete set.

 

But they're fun, in a much more organic way than fuel injection.

 

t

[Kidasters]

Thanks Toby.  This is sounding more and more like the next thing I need to attack.

 

Few more questions:

 

I realize that I'm going to have to swap over to the mechanical advance dizzy that I have stored all of these years.

 

I'm hoping there's a place on the IE shorty manifold for a vac plug in for the brake booster?

 

I guess I need to fab a puke tank for the crank case vent now?

[M3M3]

Jim - do you still have my e-mail address?  Send me a note.  I'd like all of that.

 

On a side note, I didn't realize you were going to put a Tii engine in Oscar......

 

Toby/Marshall - yeah, I've been thinking about adding the wideband anyway.  I was going to try and use the "fasten seat belt" housing on the dash, but I think I might just add another gauge on the left side of the instrument cluster, in the small "change area".

 

What's the problem with the throttle linkage everyone talks about?  is it getting both carb sync'd at the same time?  

 

I need to find someone that can re-build my webers for me.  I know Top End does it, but I'm not sure they are the right answer.

he is using a tii block in oscar

 

my o2 gauge is in the seat belt location in a two gauge enclosure with oil pressure.  jim's is in that left hand cluster area you speak of.

 

i had no issues with my top mount linkage.  worked great.  i could see on a race car when you had to change jets quickly it would add a little time to unscrew the bracket, but not much.

 

 

 

 

rebuild them yourself. instructions in the book you just ordered.  it is just a bunch of gaskets unless you find a bent throttle shaft.

 

yes, you will need a catch bottle for the crankcase vent.  DO NOT just use a little filter like shown in the pics.....

Edited March 4, 2014 by mlytle

[Kidasters]

Marshall - you mean Jim is using a Tii head?

 

I knew I saw a pic of the wideband mount where I was talking about.  I'll have to see where Jim got his setup.  I will do a search.

 

I have another weber book.  I tried to rebuild these carbs once.  I remember taking something apart, and a small BB type thing jumping out if it at me, and going on the floor - never to be seen again.

 

And that's when they went back in the bin.

 

No worries on the little filter thing.  My second car ever was a 1970 Dodge Coronet, where the previous owner had put one of those filter breather things in the PCV hole.  Engine compartment always had a thin film of oil on it - forever.  Not going to do that again.

[KFunk]

What's the problem with the throttle linkage everyone talks about?  is it getting both carb sync'd at the same time?  

 

 

 

My problem was with cables that pull directly on the carbs (like TEP's linkage).  It's difficult to get the cable to run a straight/smooth path,  it binds too much, the pedal feel is rough/crap, it's just a hard press on the gas and you get full throttle or no throttle, etc.  I had a linkage similar to this that came with the carbs, and the cable wore out and broke, replaced the cable, then replaced it with the TEP linkage, and finally put the top mount on it that is a vast improvement in pedal feel/modulation ability.  IE's top mount kit is just an off-the-shelf redline weber universal kit, by the way.  You'll need to do some things to make it work.

 

I've never had problems with synching.  Just adjust the screw and leave it for a year or three.  If they get a little out of synch, it's never really made much of a difference to me.  It might be a tiny bit rougher running at idle/low rpm, and synching it can help, but it hasn't held me back much.

[rover1]

sounds kinda strange but people have installed dual side draft weber dcoe's and ended up with less horse power then when they just had a 32/36. 

[M3M3]

yep.  the dcoe is just the carb body.  sidedrafts are all about getting the tune correct.  the dcoe bodies will accommodate a large range of engines because they are so flexible.  but if you screw up the interior bits combo in the carbs...it can run poorly if at all and be way down on power.

 

getting it right though is a lot of fun and the results are wonderful!

[LarsAlpina]

My 02 cents:

 

I don´t like throttle bowdens anyhow. For a street car I´d go stock 2002TI linkage like Ed/zinz seems to have on his car from the photos. New parts NLA, you´ll have to search for good used ones. I do have repros available but I´m in Germany so a bit high shipping costs with it. Counter bearing needs to be a bit higher if used with Webers or shaft may rub especially if cold start devices mounted. Left is stock Solex from my repro kit, right is for Weber:

 

 

For the carbs I didn´t really experience any big differences on a street car wether you use Weber or Solex (no personal experiences but think would be the same with Dellortos and Mikunis also) - they will all run great if not worn or damaged and correctly jetted and tuned. But as mentioned before: They all need to be jetted and tuned exactly according to your concrete engine and surroundings especially if engine is modded.

And here comes the problem: At least here in Germany only for the Webers a wide range of jets, Venturis and else is still easily accessible. Individual parts for Solex only available from a small number of vendors and also not all of them anymore.

Therefor I´d go with Webers - italian not spanish of course.

 

As for the modifications on the head you plan to use: Maybe keep an eye on having the dizzy recurved or to be more concrete to have the advance range limited a bit on the lower end. Can cause problems with idle if your setup may need a bit higher rpm and advance with a stock spec TI/tii distributor already sets in while your adjusting. Depending on how tired the springs in a used dizzy are the weights might already start moving quite a bit below 1000rpm and that´s really not helpful on correctly adjusting idle.

 

Best regards, Lars.

[Kidasters]

So, what's the difference between the spanish Weber castings and the italian weber castings?

 

I asked this question to two different rebuilders.  Here are the responses:

 

"The old Italy Bodies are no better than the current updated Spain castings and the Spain castings are of course newer…

 

The only reason for keeping the old carbs is originality, not performance or quality" - Steve Nelson, Top End Performance

 

"There is no difference in the internals.  The carbs have a few design changes, but functionally, there is no difference." - Jim Inglese - Weber Carburetion

[AceAndrew]

If you ever want a good story ask WHY weber switched from Italy to Spain for carb production.

[LarsAlpina]

What do they mean by "current updated castings"?

 

I spoke to Manfred Uhr from VGS in Cologne and Anette Hue from IOZ in Muehlheim about two or three years ago which for Germany are two of the most well-known adresses in tuning dual carbs. Mr Uhr told me he sends back about 80% of each delivery from Spain because those carbs sent back are simply too bad in quality to in any way deal with them. Mrs Hue´s words were accordingly.

 

Can´t tell anything from my own current experiences though because I switched to K-Fish Alpina butterfly quite some years ago. Do only irregularly deal with carbs on friends cars if they come to me for help.

 

Regards, Lars.

[Kidasters]

If you ever want a good story ask WHY weber switched from Italy to Spain for carb production.

 

Andrew - you can't just drop that bomb and leave it.  Expand......

[ndog]

Andrew - you can't just drop that bomb and leave it.  Expand......

the burro's kept shipments too long,the italians had goat's on nordic skis .

hence faster part shipments????