Starting woes

[Mars55]

Hi all -

So, here's a new-to-me situation. Yesterday I started my '68 1600. After a while sitting, it usually takes a few attempts and squirts of starting fluid to fire. She started and I left her idling for about 10 minutes. All good.
I then swapped out the old storage tires for the good set I use in the summer. That went smoothly. With all four tires swapped, I went to start it. Nothing.
I've checked the fuel lines to/from the fuel pump and carb. I also checked the connecting line at the tank. All have fuel. 
After repeated attempts, she won't start. Today I changed the fuel filter for a new, clear one. (Old one was opaque.) Fuel is flowing, though I'm not sure how much is normal.

What should I check next?

 

Thanks!

 

  

[esty]

points

 

[FunElan]

IATP

 

(it's always the points)

 

But if it's not cranking, check your starter connection. Mine sheared in half on a roadtrip.

[tech71]

3 hours ago, esty said:

points

 

And or condenser..

Next it’s time to check for spark  at a spark plug

[Mike Self]

When you say you went to start it and..."nothing".  

 

Does that mean

• the engine doesn't turn over when you turn the key to start
• the engine turns over but it doesn't fire at all
• the engine turns over and it coughs but won't stay lit
• or ???

That makes a big difference...

 

You say that you checked the fuel lines and changed the fuel filter; did you pull the air cleaner, look down the carb throat and work the accelerator linkage?  If so, did you see a squirt of gas from the accelerator pump nozzle (the little pipe that sticks out into the carb venturi)?  No squirt means no gas in the carb.  

 

Presuming the engine turns over when you turn the key to start:  did you pull a spark plug, lay it atop the valve cover connected to its spark plug wire, and then have someone turn the key to start while you look for a nice blue spark at the plug?  No spark?  then work your way back to the coil via the distributor.  

 

Let us know more about the symptoms and we can better suggest a cure...

 

mike

 

[Mars55]

 

 

Mike et al -

The battery and starter are strong. It cranks just fine. Like I said, it started earlier in the same day with little hesitation.

 

Also, the carb is getting fuel.  Gas is present to and from the fuel pump. 

On to the points. I checked voltage at the points while rotating the engine. Voltage is good on either end.

Voltage at the coil is good. 

I will do the spark plug test when a friend comes over later today. For what's it's worth, just replaced them last year, maybe 600 miles. I'm hoping that's the issue. 

 

Thanks for the help!

 

[tech71]

Think its time to procure a new condenser.

I have had non firing issues in the past due to a failed condenser, there was still voltage across the points but the car would not fire up.

Installed a new condenser and Vroom vroom!

Relatively cheap, I keep a new one in my car along with points and other stuff.

Buy 2, got new ignition points available? if not buy some as well

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by tech71

[esty]

try using an emery board to sand the points and condenser...X your fingers and hope for spark

 

[Hans]

Checking the points means checking for smooth surfaces and measuring gap/dwell.

[Mars55]

Update II

Last night a friend came over and we checked for spark at the plugs. All fired up.  Strangely, with plug from cylinder #1 out, the engine almost fired up.

The points don't look badly corroded, but I used 600 grit sandpaper (all I have) to lightly sand the surfaces. I also sanded the condenser wire that attaches to the diff.

So, what should be my next move?

A) Swap out the points

B ) Swap out the condenser 

 

About the plugs. Changed last year and gapped at .28. Plug #1 tip is fouled, oily. Plugs #3 & #4 tips were clean but I found oil pooled in wells. 

 

Any tips on how to set the dwell would be welcomed!  (I don't have a dwell meter...)

 

Again, thanks!

 

 

[tech71]

2 hours ago, Mars55 said:

B ) Swap out the condenser

Um...yeah. under 10 bucks, easy to change and crosses it off the possible cause list.

I suppose you could check coil primary resistance.

Strange it just "happened" after tire swap, you sure nothing else occurred in time frame from running to not?

Are you actually getting fuel into the engine?

Take off air filter, look down carb and work the throttle, should be able to see a squirt of fuel from accelerator pump. If not possibly a stuck float, got any starting fluid?

Edited June 23, 2023 by tech71

[Mike Self]

25 minutes ago, tech71 said:

B ) Swap out the condense

Yeah...I learned that lesson about a year ago...in nearly 60 years of messing with "old fashioned" ignition systems, I learned that 

1. a condenser is vital to the ignition system's function
2. they can fail slowly, or with no warning
3. they're easy to replace, and...
4. I'd never had one fail until I was on an Interstate with no shoulder when the engine quit.

Try replacing that condenser and see what happens...

 

mike

 

PS  One more test:  with the ignition on, pop the dizzy cap off, and use a small screwdriver to separate the points.  You should see a small spark at the points.  No spark = no voltage to them. 

 

And while you're at it, make sure the carbon contact in the center of the cap moves in and out on a spring.  That's the way coil voltage finds its way to the rotor, and thus to the spark plugs.  I've had those contacts jam and fall out.  Both meant no spark to the plugs.

[Son of Marty]

4 hours ago, Mars55 said:

About the plugs. Changed last year and gapped at .28. Plug #1 tip is fouled, oily. Plugs #3 & #4 tips were clean but I found oil pooled in wells. 

What plugs did you use?

[Hans]

Errr...."not badly corroded"..?? The contact pads should be flat, smooth and clean; i.e., not corroded. You may need a file to clean - off the car.

You need a dwell meter to set dwell. Meanwhile, Gap of 0.016 (?) is fine. Do you know how to check timing?

[Mars55]

Update III

The condenser on the 1600 attaches to the outside of the dizzy with a bracket. The original (not to the car, but on previously) is on the right. I have a new pair that look like the one on the left. Well, the new one is slightly larger in diameter than the previous one, so I wrestled with reattaching it with the bracket.

In any event, I tried to start and, again, no go.

Next step is to swap in new points and gap them. Other suggestions?

I'm concerned about the condition of the plugs, as described earlier. One was fouled and two others clean but in small pools of oil. Bad rings? Rich mixture? Again, as I said, the car started earlier this week and had been running fine.

A more experienced friend will help with setting the timing....if I can get it to start. Old car blues.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions.