Adjustable Control Arms, take 2

[danco_]

I'm going to have Matt set mine up. Gonna pay him in beer and stories of my past that should have landed me in prison. 

 

 

[irdave]

On 7/1/2021 at 3:14 PM, Dudeland said:

I think what would help is your guidelines for getting the best out of the adjustability offered by these arms.  Most people think in terms of what can be done differently that couldn't be done before.  Most importantly what we feed the person doing the alignment on the car.   

 

Not everybody has someone in their wheelhouse that knows what to do with the new functionality your product offers,  me included. 

 

Regards

 

 

This is an 'in general, to / for everyone', not just pointed at my Dude, even though there are some 'yous.'

 

Alignment can be a big deal, and a deal breaker- it all depends.  If your car is stock, maybe lowered a little bit, you probably don't need these parts.  On the other hand, if you're buddies with the race car shop and you're complaining about grip and tire wear, these might be for you.  I'd think that if a guy was interested in these and could use them, he'd (she'd) already have adjustable camber plates with a bunch of poly bushings at a minimum.

 

Qualitatively, alignment can make a nervous car stable, a stable car turn in quicker, make a car brake in a straight line and feel stable, or make it feel sketchy.  It can make the steering have more feel, or less.  It can help a car to rotate or keep it from rotating.  And if you tend to drive at a point where these things are relevant, and you're willing to not have a stock car, and you're willing to spend some money, then there are some people to talk to.  Not just for 2002s.

 

My wife had a 2007 Mini Cooper S when I met her.  On run-flats.  Good tires (non run-flats), adjustable camber plates and adjustable rear arms transformed the car from a nervous slapper into something that felt like it was made by BMW.  I could feel it from the passenger seat.  All because it allowed the people doing the alignment to make the 'numbers', the camber, castor and toe, to be what they should be for what we wanted- which often (ever?) is not how the factory ships it.  

 

More adjustability is good for people that know what they're adjusting.  More adjustability is bad when people don't know what they're adjusting.  So if you know what you want, you would know if you need these.  Need.  :)  If the people doing your alignment keep saying it would be better if they had more adjustability- ditto.  If your car is stock-ish with all rubber / OE suspension bushings, nah, these aren't for you.  These aren't the starting point for your suspension, these are the freaking crown jewels.

 

Not trying to sound exclusive- these are like anything that you're really into...  Do I want a Geissele trigger?  Well, yeah, but when I first started years ago?  It wouldn't have made a difference.  Does gamer guy need the mega graphics card?  Do speaker wires make a difference?  Does the knife in the kitchen make a difference?  Does the pizza stone make a difference?  Do I need these freakin' group A control arms?  If I'm really into it.  I'm lucky- these won't fit my car, so I don't *have to* buy them.  :)

[edgefinder]

Yeah, this gives a lot more folks who haven't had the option of adjustability but they have a lot of ideas they always wanted to try to see if what they think and expect is what really happens. And hell if that didn't work go the other way see what happens. Notes lots of notes

Edited July 4, 2021 by edgefinder

[chargin]

my Caster is off so I added shim washers to push the good arm back 5/32" these would fix that

 

 

[TobyB]

Quote

and bump steer.

Hmmm- given that they're planar, how do they do that?

 

 

Quote

Do speaker wires make a difference?

Not once they're big enough.  Anyone who says different is more full of shit than an International 530.

Use 12ga zip from HD  and spend the money you saved on buying a better speaker. 

 

Or a nicer cartridge.

 

t

has seen the insides of too many things...

 

 

[Ian]

Just now, TobyB said:

Hmmm- given that they're planar, how do they do that?

My impression is that since they are adjustable length, you could match them up to tie rod lengths.  Or I could just be tired...

[irdave]

7 hours ago, TobyB said:

...

 

 

Not once they're big enough.  Anyone who says different is more full of shit than an International 530.

Use 12ga zip from HD  and spend the money you saved on buying a better speaker. 

 

Or a nicer cartridge.

 

t

has seen the insides of too many things...

 

 

 

Or the Naim guys with their directional speaker wire.    TBF, the amp and whatever speakers we have combination does sound good.

[uai]

An adjustable (or even just a re-drilled) strut bearing is imho still the place to look for camber and caster. No need to adjust down there. If you need longer ones make longer ones on a fixed dimension or get struts with negative camber (what I'd do).
 

[Ian]

The ability to increase track width is a plus.

[mttpekin]

@irdave nailed it. Thank you. Hopefully one of my future products can sneak onto your car. I've appreciated your feedback throughout this endeavor. 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 8:49 PM, bourkeco said:

I am really excited to get my hands on these they are works of art! As far as price goes this particular component is not one I would want to shave a couple bucks off... These are critical parts just like brakes, I'll save money somewhere that my life doesn't hang in the balance. 

Thank you for striving for excellence..  

@bourkeco I'm excited to get em in your hands! Schedule per last email is still on track. Will notify if anything changes. 

On 7/1/2021 at 2:14 PM, Dudeland said:

I think what would help is your guidelines for getting the best out of the adjustability offered by these arms.  Most people think in terms of what can be done differently that couldn't be done before.  Most importantly what we feed the person doing the alignment on the car. 

@Dudeland Working on it. I will have a site eventually that'll line it out. Additionally, there are a fair few guys who will have these in hand shortly who I'm sure will provide feedback. Getting the best out of the adjustability is quite subjective

 

On 7/3/2021 at 9:41 PM, edgefinder said:

Yeah, this gives a lot more folks who haven't had the option of adjustability but they have a lot of ideas they always wanted to try to see if what they think and expect is what really happens. And hell if that didn't work go the other way see what happens. Notes lots of notes

@edgefinder Yes, exactly; and NOTES! 

On 7/6/2021 at 2:09 PM, uai said:

An adjustable (or even just a re-drilled) strut bearing is imho still the place to look for camber and caster. No need to adjust down there. If you need longer ones make longer ones on a fixed dimension or get struts with negative camber (what I'd do).

@uai all of the things you mention are available to anyone who wants them. If some people want to buy adjustable length arms for the 02 they can do that now too. ?

[chargin]

On 7/6/2021 at 2:09 PM, uai said:

An adjustable (or even just a re-drilled) strut bearing is imho still the place to look for camber and caster. No need to adjust down there. If you need longer ones make longer ones on a fixed dimension or get struts with negative camber (what I'd do).

The caster on my chassis is off, currently I’ve shimmed back one side but that’s really not the solution.

I love the concept of an adjustable tie rod to pull the Caster back and get my car back to factory spec

 

[Dudeland]

I am interested, but I need to get my wheel arches sorted before I can put it on a rack and see where everything sits. 235/40/15’s need a bit of work to fit.  I am hoping to get my welder soon.  
 

[Ian]

1 hour ago, Dudeland said:

I am interested, but I need to get my wheel arches sorted before I can put it on a rack and see where everything sits. 235/40/15’s need a bit of work to fit.  I am hoping to get my welder soon.  
 

That's a very odd size.  What tires come in that size?

[MOESPEED2002]

On 7/3/2021 at 10:38 PM, chargin said:

my Caster is off so I added shim washers to push the good arm back 5/32" these would fix that

 

 

 

Chargin,

 

Caster aside, I'm assuming that your f/r track length was off by the same .156" also? 

 

I had the same dilemma but my front track rod mount was off by .125". Adding a washer to the track rod fixed my f/r track length and caster was done by GC plates.

 

Moe

 

 

[Dudeland]

On 7/9/2021 at 6:09 PM, Ian said:

That's a very odd size.  What tires come in that size?

Sorry they are 225/45/15's. Honestly I can't remember.  It is depressing to think of how long it has been since i really wrenched on it, I think it was Feb 2020. 

 

 I am just finishing off my double vaccine, which means I can leave the land of Ice and snow, slip down to buffalo,  go by the anchor bar, get some wings, then snip by and pick up my welder.  I am getting the Harbor Freight 205 Tig welder.  It is more than good enough for the cars I date.  

 

This means that I can finally cut and weld my fenders, do some work on my fuel system and get the thing mobile again.  I am thinking in the winter I will pull the engine, warm it over, and stab it back in the rig so that I can hit the cars and coffee circuit here in Toronto.