Newbie Carb Question

[RainMoore]

Hi all,

New to the forum and a new 2002 owner of a not-so-new-looking project car I've just inherited. I will doubtlessly be asking LOTS of questions on here in the months to come.

 

This is a '74 2002 Automatic. Its been sitting outside, underneath a tree for some time, and has been a cozy home for some mice. I've cleaned it and begun attempting to get it started. Oil is topped off and fresh high test gas with some marvel in both to boot. Last time it ran was about 3 years ago.

 

Upon troubleshooting, the electrical appears to be alright, as are the plugs.

Someone at some point installed a Weber (32/36 I think) and while it has the manual choke installed, it looks as tho it was wired to the throttle, but the cable has snapped so now the choke doesn't function at all. I'll attach a photo.

I've never heard of this, nor can I find anything like this online on any forum.

 

Should I fix this with a new wire, or just order an electric choke--assuming it will install relatively easily? I think this was already a problem, as when is was running it had problems stalling when idling. As I'm new to all of this, would this not mean that when you're not actively accelerating the choke would close?

 

Thanks for any advice.

Sorry for the gummy shot, hadn't cleaned it up yet. What you're seeing is the rod that runs from the side of the carb to a joint (which is free-hanging strangely to me) and down to the accelerator pedal. It would seem that the frayed wire in my had used to run up to the mechanical choke.

 

[Son of Marty]

That's the shift down cable to the tranny it will kick down a gear when you step on it nothing to do with the choke.

[RainMoore]

2 hours ago, Son of Marty said:

That's the shift down cable to the tranny it will kick down a gear when you step on it nothing to do with the choke.

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the reply. I guess I was looking to hard for the startup problem. Still no clue how the choke is supposed to function. Is it common to leave a manual choke unconnected like that and wide open?

Also, Is the cable into the transmission something I could replace myself?

[TobyB]

The manual and auto chokes don't cross over- the bodies are different, and the idle- up cams work differently.

 

Buy yourself a choke cable and hook it up- you'll need it if your carb's tuned remotely close to right.

Without it, yes, getting the thing to start is going to take a lot of cranking and judicious pumping.

 

As to the auto kickdown cable, yes, you can replace it yourself, and it's not too hard to do 

(I don't know if it's still available:  www.realoem.com for the part number, then google that part number for availability, as realoem doesn't sell parts)

but you do have to drain the transmission ( I seem to remember) to remove the pan.

 

Welcome!

 

 

t

Edited October 22, 2020 by TobyB

[RainMoore]

4 minutes ago, TobyB said:

The manual and auto chokes don't cross over- the bodies are different, and the idle- up cams work differently.

 

Buy yourself a choke cable and hook it up- you'll need it if your carb's tuned remotely close to right.

 

As to the auto kickdown cable, yes, you can replace it yourself, and it's not too hard to do 

(I don't know if it's still available:  www.realoem.com for the part number, then google that part number for availability, as realoem doesn't sell parts)

but you do have to drain the transmission ( I seem to remember) to remove the pan.

 

Welcome!

 

 

t

Thanks so much! Super helpful. Guess I’m in the market for a new carb.

strangely the dash isn’t set up for a manual choke knob, so I’m not sure what the previous owner was up to...

[2002iii]

The factory manual choke cable mounted on the steering column cover.

 

I would suggest getting a remote starter or a friend to work the ignition switch so you can try and start the car while working the choke and throttle with your hands.

[Mike Self]

2002s with automatics all came with automatic choke carbs--even the early cars with 1 barrel Solexes.  So you're gonna have to rig up a manual choke yourself, since there wasn't a provision for one on the car to begin with. 

 

You can buy a universal choke cable at your local auto supply store.  Look at the steering column housing--on the left side of the housing (opposite to the ignition switch) you'll see a blank spot that looks like something should go there.  Something does--on cars with manual chokes--the cable knob. 

 

So drill a hole through the plastic housing, remove the cardboard trim under the dash and look for a rubber plug in the firewall near where the steering column passes through.  That's where the choke cable would go.  Poke a hole in the plug (or buy an appropriately sized grommet, then pass the cable through the hole and lead it up to the choke cable bracket on the carb--the curved arm sticking out of the carb at the top of your picture.  Trim the cable so the outer sheath can be clamped to the end of the bracket, and the inner wire fastened to the movable arm that opens and closes the chokes on the carb.  Adjust so the choke is fully off with the knob pushed in, and fully on when it's pulled out. 

 

Or, find someone on the FAQ with an automatic choke carb who has a jones for a manual choke carb, and trade with 'em....

 

mike

[Slavs]

Mike described the choke cable installation thoroughly. As far as the 32/36 Weber, I've never had good luck with the manual choke cable version. The choke literally choked the engine. I don't know if it was related to my particular carb.

 

Now, as far as the choke cable; the stock BMW choke cables used on the single barrel Solex are too short for the 32/36 Weber. But, the generic choke cable kits they sell are of inferior quality and most, if not all, lack the special spring near the knob end which holds the choke in either the closed or open position. The factory cables all have this spring which sits in one of two grooves of the cable housing, corresponding to the open or closed positions. With the generic cables the choke cable would start moving as you work the throttle and drive the car. While picking through junkyards 20 years ago I removed a choke cable from a 60s era Mercedes. It is almost identical to the BMW cable, except it is longer, which is what you need for the 32/36.

 

I think the choke is the least of your problems for now. Once started, you can manipulate the choke directly on the carb by hand until the motor starts up. I would check the valve clearances, install new points and plugs and set the ignition timing before I even attempted to start it.

 

As far as the 32/36, they are easy to set and adjust. But, everything else I mentioned must check out.

[Mike Self]

8 hours ago, Slavs said:

Now, as far as the choke cable; the stock BMW choke cables used on the single barrel Solex are too short for the 32/36 Weber.

You're absolutely correct.  If you're a CCA member and can wait until December, my Roundel column describes how to adapt an OEM 2002 manual choke cable to work on a manual choke Weber.   Or if you can't wait, PM me and I'll send you excerpts--and encourage you to join the Club...

8 hours ago, Slavs said:

As far as the 32/36 Weber, I've never had good luck with the manual choke cable version. The choke literally choked the engine. I don't know if it was related to my particular carb.

I've had just the opposite experience--I've had a manual choke Weber on my car since 1981, and it's always worked as advertised.  One thing I learned when starting from cold:  pull the choke knob out all the way, then turn the key to start without touching the gas pedal.  It should start quickly if the car hasn't been sitting for several days. If it's been sitting, floor the pedal once or twice to work the accelerator pump, but then stay off the pedal 'till it starts.  Once it's started, let it run for a few seconds before touching the gas pedal, or it'll stall.  You can then push the choke in part-way for a smooth, elevated idle.  

 

Another choke-related discovery:  the link connecting the choke with the fast idle cam doesn't allow the fast idle to be fast enough to prevent stalling when cold.  I put a bit more kink in that link to increase the idle speed with the choke on, and solved that problem.

 

mike