RainMoore
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'74 2002 Automatic - what do you all think this is worth?
RainMoore replied to RainMoore's topic in Cars for Sale/Wanted
Sorry for the file format mixup, here are some Jpegs. Hopefully these work! -
Hey all, I've been slowly working on this car for a while now but unfortunately think I may need to move it along to someone else. Just a little beyond my amateur abilities/time. Wondering what everyone thinks is a good price range to shoot for. As there are so few Automatics out there I can't get a good idea of it's worth. I know the Automatics are desirable because of the large gearbox space that can fit a five-speed manual but I don't know if this would increase or decrease it's value. Maybe it's rarity helps? A few details: not too much rust besides surface issues, the spare tire well is nicely rusted through, and there is a small spot in the trunk just behind the rear seat that would need replacement, as well as part of the panel beneath the passenger side seat. Nothing else serious I've been able to find. It runs nicely and the transmission seems to be in fine working order. I've replaced much of the wiring and cleaned the bejesus out of the engine compartment. Mechanically I've found no problems at all. Included several photos of the damage at the rear end (happened while it was parked/abandoned in someones driveway). The trunk is normally attached and will close. The chrome trim around the taillights wasn't damaged, but the cross-strut trim is pretty dinged up. I've pulled out the dent as much as possible, but I think the rear panel should probably just be replaced. Maybe someone at a body shop could work some magic, but its beyond my knowledge. interior is in pretty rough shape. Seats would need total redoing, as would the roof liner, and the dash has several cracks, tho I've seen videos of people restoring old dashes in much worse shape. Has all the parts for the sunroof except the little plastic bits that everyone seems to complain about breaking, but the mechanism for winding it open/closed is jammed. Haven't been able to free it up yet. Have the majority of the trim, missing maybe three pieces ( I'm including in that the piece across the front of the hood that's really chewed up). The accordion rubber bits for the bumpers are pretty wasted and saggy but maybe someone can bring them back to life. The rubber seals around the windshield and rear glass will need replacing, hard as rocks. Think that's the majority of problems and info. Thanks for reading! IMG_3424.HEIC IMG_3425.HEIC IMG_3426.HEIC IMG_3427.HEIC IMG_3428.HEIC IMG_3429.HEIC IMG_3430.HEIC IMG_3431.HEIC IMG_3509.HEIC IMG_3510.HEIC IMG_3511.HEIC
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It’s a 0 231 180 008, you were right on about that. So maybe/maybe not actually Bosch, but definitely not stock for an automatic from what I’m reading. No, I’m not sure the advance is topping out. Too hard to tell with the timing marks so...fluttery. Going to start over and have a do over tomorrow probably. It seems to be returning to the same readings at idle, tho again it’s hard to tell with what’s going on.
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I’m attempting to time the engine properly and find out what the advance curve currently is. This is partly to see how my distributor is working, as I’m trying to address an issue with the timing sort of wandering. Mark’s on the flywheel bounce around a lot, and rpms (at any speed) vary wildly, well over +/- 100, and it will sometimes stutter and die at idle. The timing light I have has an advance feature, so I can increase or decrease the advance on the light itself. So if I get the engine to, say, 2000 rpm, I increase the advance on the light until I “find” the OTM mark, then register that as the advance at that speed. Basically I set the timing at 1500 rpm by using the little BB and the light at 0 degrees advance (which actually give me 25 degrees advance at that speed). Then I lock down the dizzy and plot the advance curve as above.
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Hey so I've obviously gotten turned around somewhere. Let me see if I can clear this up. Exactly. This is manufacturer spec. When running at 1500 rpm, the BB is against the flat edge of the viewing window, with the light's advance showing 0 Degrees. I am then setting the engine at varying increments of 500 rpms, and then bumping the advance on the light until I find OTM. I thought that using OTM would give the total advance by adding that number to the base of 25 bTDC. If I'm setting timing with the BB should I be using the BB to find the advance curve instead? Right. This is strange as the 008 advance numbers aren't listed in the blue book. Think I've made this really confusing. I meant that when I'm increasing RPMs, I'll find OTM when I reach 12 degrees advance on the light. So that would be 37 Degrees advance total...no? Looking at my numbers now, tho, I must have done something wrong. There's still the problem with this distributor and uneven timing (bouncing timing marks and engine shake) so I've been tweaking the carb to keep it from dying at idle while working out the transmission issues. I may have sullied these readings somehow. I'll try again today.
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I just did, and its definitely over advanced. But to be clear, its says to set the timing by the BB at 1400 RPM (which is 25 degree advance), then measures the advance as I did. I should say this is for the 003 dizzy, and I've got the 008 which isn't listed, but it reads: 1000 - 11-15 1500 - 17-21 2000 - 23-27 2500 - 30-33 3000 - 37-41 3500 - 41-45 4000 - 42-46 (end) So you're right that my advance seems to be stopping early (or I'm reading wrong). That being said, these reading are probably at OTM like I've been doing, right? I use the BB to set the base timing at 1400 rpms, and then I'm increasing the rpms (starting at 1000) and bumping up the advance on my light until I find OTM, and that's how I'm registering the advance.
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Ended up putting about 3 quarts in and its functioning seemingly well. This is the filter I found, better to just remove and clean the one in there? https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-auto-trans-filter-mark-24311201102 I'll do a drain and replacement of the transmission fluid soon, just wanted to make sure it was functioning and I hadn't done any damage already.
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So I finally did the advance curve test. It's timed by the little BB at 1500 RPM (which is 25 degrees advance mark), with OT 12 degrees advance above. I'll list the advance at OT, seems simpler to me that way. Then I guess you could just add 25 degrees to get the total advance. 900 RPM (Idle) - OT 26 Degrees 1000 RPM - OT 27 Degrees 1500 RPM - OT 31 Degrees 2000 RPM - OT 43 Degrees It maxes out the advance at 2000 RPM. That sound right to you? Did I even do this right? Tricky as the timing is still wonky as hell but this is pretty close. Got the transmission working, turns out the dipstick was showing it was full only because I wasn't running it in gear. The more I changed gears while running the engine the lower it got. Ended up putting a little over 3 quarts in and it's now full and working well. It's actually about 1 MM over the top line now, so I'm going to do a fluid change soon. Unfortunately I live in a part of town I can't really take it out on the road until I get registration and a plate and whatnot, good chance I'd get a pricey ticket, but it seems to be gearing well. Having run it and revved it a lot more I've noticed a lot of fumes coming out of the breather hose, and a faint gasoline smell I think. Is that normal?
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Where did it go indeed. It’s not leaking at all. Took 2 quarts to get it to the right level. It was sitting outside in the high New Mexico desert for 2-3 years so who knows what it’s gone through. What we lack in rust we make up for in all kinds of other fun problems. All the exposed rubber is beyond dead. The oil looks fine (in my limited experience) and doesn’t smell burnt, tho when I put the first quart in and changed gears I definitely smelled some burning-like smell, so I cut the engine and added the second quart. Seems ok now on that front, hopefully I didn’t do any damage. I’ve got a new filter (along with a new voltage regulator, relays, and dizzy stuff) ready to order soon. I’ll do a full drain when I get the filter, tho I don’t have a lift so that’ll be interesting... Is there a specific brand/type you would use for a full replenishment? I topped it off with Lucas, as recommended by a fellow at the parts store, but it’s only sold by the quart.
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Well it turns out it was the transmission fluid ? Occam’s razor strikes again. The dipstick had been measuring well within the two marks and was clean (no black specks that I could see) but I noticed the more I changed gears (while running), the lower the fluid on the dipstick was until it was showing empty this morning. I’m guessing the fluid won’t flow into each gear unless it’s engaged? Drank up one quart, about to add another. It’s making some unhappy sounds, but gets better the more I add, and when I changed the gears it did engage. So writing this mostly for future newbies like myself in this position. Thanks for your help, all. Finding those uploaded me was a huge help all around.
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That would be a 008 I believe.
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hah, damn. Glad I didn't order them, thanks for the part #, tho. That helps! Spoke to the specialty euro auto mechanic who used to service this large rumbling paperweight I'm tinkering with. He said he's ready to retire because of stuff exactly like $15 for a single washer that's basically impossible to find. It was...encouraging haha Good call researching the different distributors. No free lunch, as they say. Might wait and get a 123, having this one rebuilt wouldn't be all that much less. Probably do it eventually as a backup tho.
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Thats great, thanks! I hadn't found that yet. Super helpful.
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Right, nothing at all. Just got it running after lots of dead ends so it’s more than a little frustrating. PO is trustworthy and said the tranny functioned great. Spoke to the mechanic who used to service it today and he thought it was in very good shape. Worst case I guess I’ll be putting one of those 5 speeds in I’ve read so much about on here.
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It’s low but within the ok range I’ve found in manuals. Haven’t topped it off yet, unsure of what to use or what’s in there. Can you explain how the accelerator works in these automatics? Is there a cable I’m missing or is it linked up to the pedal somewhere underneath the body? Haven’t found a full automatic manual and I’m very new to all this.
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It won’t move in any gear, D, R, 2, 1...it’s going into gear tho, as when in R I can only push it backwards, D forward, but pressure on the pedal and the engine only revs, no push. I guess I could be confused by them calling it an accelerator cable, but it only performs the function of a kick down?
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I know this is an old thread, but I haven't found a discussion on this anywhere else. Are we sure this is a kick down cable and not the accelerator cable for an automatic? On my recently acquired 74 2002A this cable is severed just below the little accordion rubber bit, and while the car will go into gear, accelerating does nothing. The engine revs but not the slightest bit of movement. As most on here have manuals I haven't gotten any advice on this topic... I've also not been able to find a replacement, so if anyone knows of a way to get one, I'd really appreciate it.
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Hah no some pushing is probably good. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-26140 This looks right to me, but before I order it I thought I'd double check, and I'm sure I can get the roll pin at a hardware store.
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I’ll do that test! Sounds interesting. The cam looks a little worn, but since the dwell is steady and in range I guess it’s within the quality range? Overall it looks about middle range worn compared to photos and videos from others. I’ll also keep searching for fiber washers and take another run at that little retaining clip under the felt plug, and see if that can solve this problem, at least for now. I’ll read up on the IE dizzy. Emailed them this morning since they only have a Tii option, and the mechanical advance difference. Sounds like a possibly good bet, and 123 is just out of my budget right now, tho they sound really cool.
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Hey that was super helpful, thanks! Hadn’t found that replacement option yet. I will call first since it’s labeled a Tii part, but it worked for someone else with an automatic ? Been thinking I’d like to move to electronic ignition anyway, so that would save some cash. Could still rebuild the dizzy for fun, that way no pressure waiting on parts from so many different places. Thanks much!
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Ok, thanks! I’m officially a YouTuber. glad we’ve at least identified a (hopefully THE) cause of the sloppy timing. I’ll order a few of those fiber washers, think that’ll get it performing well enough for now? I may send it off for a rebuild/tune up to those fellas at the advanced distributor workshop eventually, but for now want to get it humming. Seems silly to keep tuning or begin really messing with the carb before this is solved. Lots of other things to accomplish on this beast (like a dented in rear end) Basically, so I understand fully, the fiber washers should sit on either side of that metal washer near the base, and there should be no movement if I pull/push? and forgive me if it’s on this site somewhere, but drilling out and removing the pin at the base sounds simple enough, but would a simple punch work for a replacement? The rest of what I can see looks to be in pretty good shape, so I’ll wait on the full rebuild...
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Let me know if this works: https://youtu.be/eMhuYnNpbaM First time for everything, lets hope I can upload a youtube clip! Know of a good place to order a rebuild kit? Or is it feasible to find a list of parts and buy them at, say, Ace? I haven't found a kit by googling anything...
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So I pulled the dizzy today, doesn't look bad at all compared to images and videos I've seen, tho there is some play which makes me think the washers that were discussed need to be replaced. I've included a little video to show what I'm talking about. Doesn't look like anything is near rusted or worn even. I went ahead and disassembled some of the interior and cleaned and lubricated it all. A lots of oil/dirt which cleaned up easy, but it all seems to be functioning properly, and the springs looked okay. Want to wait to get into the bottom half until I have the parts to replace what I'll need to. Added a photo of before I removed the top plates and cleaned them. They didn't want to come apart so I'm waiting to do a deeper clean until I figure out how to safely do that. I can't see much left/right floppiness, but the fact that it has so much up and down play makes me think this could be what's causing the crazy fluctuating RPMs and timing, and uneven engine shake. Let me know what y'all think of the video. I did notice when I pulled the felt plug that there was a tiny...washer? that was loose. It is C shaped and obviously is supposed to go around a little pin or bolt inside the main shaft. I wasn't able to get it back on so I put the felt back for now... Put it back in and got it started again so that was a confidence booster! You were right about that light! IMG_1706.MOV
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And here’s my coil info. Plugging that into google is telling me it’s got 3.3 ohm resistance, so I shouldn’t need any external resistor right? it’s still getting fairly hot even with the wire from the starter motor disconnected.
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Ok so I realized I was setting the timing at about 950 rpms (so at idle speed). Knocked it up to 1500 and set it at 0 degrees at the little BB, so that should be a 25 degree advance...I think. you were right about going between the idle and turning the dizzy, thanks for the heads up there. Tom, I upped the advance on the light and found OT at about 12, so I’m running at...37 degrees advance? I’ve confused myself again. I’m sure this will click but right now it seems I’m running in circles. It sounds happier where it is now that I’ve “properly” set the timing, faltering less and has a steadier run at idle (900-950). Tho I’ve noticed in the cabin there’s a strangely defending vibration to everything now. It sounds much happier at anything above 1000, and the idle rpms still fluctuate a bit. When I bump the throttle it will settle below the original idle rpms, then take 60 seconds or so to catch back up. That sounds to me like I need to yank out the dizzy and do some work there. What do y’all think? oh and the dwell is rock solid at 61 degrees. Still haven’t figured out the shifter problem, would be nice to pull it out and let it run for a while, not the best ventilation in my garage...
