RainMoore

Wow ok, I thought the BB was zero. This makes more sense now. I’ve already run the light from 0-25 while looking at the flywheel, but didn’t know what I was looking for. With the advance screen on, at 0 degrees I see the BB. That seems to be where it’s running best. I misspoke about the dwell, I don’t think it’s fluctuating. Just the rpms and the steadiness of the BB. It’s dead center then vanishes for a moment then reappears. I read another post which described this as “hunting”, and like that example the idling isn’t consistent, so I think I’m still a little off. It sort of surges and abates. Lots of inconsistent shaking of the engine block. I’ll try your idea tomorrow. Thanks once again for the super clear breakdown. You’re right, this is complicated stuff to explain.

Hello all, Just got my first timing light to use on my 74' 2002 Automatic, and I've got some questions. Finally got the thing running after some rewiring and replacing the points and condenser. Haven't checked the actual 'quality' of the spark, need an extra set of hands for that. The engine is running somewhat smoothly just by trial and error, turning the dizzy and messing with the main mixture screw and idle screw (its a weber 32/36). I've read to start out at 2 full turns out but its happier at 1-1.5 turns (which would mean it likes a lean mixture, right? I'm at 7,500 ft by the way). Trying to set it to manufacturer recommendation, but it doesn't idle well below 950 (recommended is 900 -/+ 50), and the idle rpms fluctuate within a range of about 50-75 constantly, so somethings not working smoothly here. Also, once I hooked up the light I found it was idling best at 0 degrees advance, and every time I tried to set it to 25 degrees advance it dies. First time for all of this, so I'm assuming I'm using the light correctly. Found that I had, by ear, set the timing pretty much dead on at 0 degrees advance. The little metal ball is easily seen, though it fluctuates as though the timing wanes in and out of being correct, is this normal?? The idle doesn't sounds particularly "even" but I don't have a trained ear for this so maybe its fine. Dwell is at 60-62, point gap at 0.016, and voltage on the light meter across the battery terminals is reading about 13.9 V. Also after running for a while, the coil is quite hot. Didn't burn me but couldn't touch it for more than a couple seconds. I don't know much yet but I know that can be a bad sign. I had run a wire from the starter motor to the + on the coil as per the universal schematic on this site, but just noticed that specifically on the automatic schematics there isn't one. Just the green wire from the fuse box and starter switch. So I've disconnected it and will see what's what tomorrow. Could it be getting too much voltage while running? Its a Bosch Blue coil, which I understand has a resistor built into the coil itself, tho I've read a lot of confusing advice suggesting there is supposed to be a small resistor in the green wire somewhere, which there definitely isn't now. Note that the points I first found in the car were burnt and pitted pretty badly. The PO told me it had developed a problem where after running for a while it would sometimes falter and die when stopped at a light, guess no one could figure out what the problem was. On a side note, tried to pull the car outside to run it and let the gas treatment do its thing (lots of gunk on the plugs) and the gear shifter doesn't seem to be functioning...forward or reverse does nothing when I push the gas. It does allow me to roll it by pushing tho. Any ideas on where to start with that? I know most of you have sticks... Found a terminal underneath the body, around the middle where the gear shift is, which has two green/white wires which have been cut and are just hanging there. Cant figure out what those are. Is there any part of the shifter that's electronic or is it all mechanical? Thanks!

I hadn’t considered the heat factor. No fuel is actually running through it, or probably even coming into contact with it, but the thing melting is not something I’d considered. I’m using good quality automotive fuel line for the actual lines I’m replacing. I’ll look for a replacement before I’ve got this thing on the road. Maybe use some of the cabin fuel line like my friend above suggested. Thanks for the good thinking there. Thought I was being pretty clever.

Had someone crank while I turned the dizzy slowly. Suddenly it awoke! A little more dialing in, and tweaking the carb and it’s cruising along. Sounds pretty happy when revved up! Got the Rolls Royce timing light y’all recommended coming in the mail, so hopefully this weekend I can get it more finely tuned! So great after so much tinkering, replacing this and that, and stumbling through unknown waters to hear it humming along! Thanks again! An actual photo of today events:

Just got it going this afternoon! Timing light is on the way so this is just by turning the dizzy to where it sounds best. Thanks again for all the advice y’all! IMG_1652.MOV

Man, once again thanks to all of you for being so awesome. Great advice and patience with this bumbling novice. I'll give an update once I've tried some of these new ideas. ...And I'm sure I'll have more questions hah

This sounds like it could be a good way to do this, but I'm a little confused. So I would rotate the dizzy counter clockwise until I see spark, but someone would need to be cranking the engine to make that happen, no? So would I then reset the crankcase at the first notch (which I'm assume is an advance position) each time I try? Or is there a way to get static spark? Also, one thing I haven't had answered yet, how do I even get to the nut? Would I need to remove the radiator and fan? Thanks!

Also, it doesn't have a tach readout. Theres a clock where that would normally be.

I thought of doing this but worried I could damage something and decided against it. Is there any risk of doing harm in this method?

Ok, so I would set everything at TDC (basically manual specs), then adjust it to 25 degrees by turning the distributor, or would I adjust something on the light itself? I'm ordering a timing light now, so I don't have any experience with them yet. I thought the three notches on the flywheel represented TDC and some degrees of advance. Why wouldn't I set the advance there? Also, you're saying that its easier to remove the valve cover than to turn to TDC with the bolt on the front? If I removed the cover would I need to replace the gasket? Again, this would be a first for me. Thanks!

I do that, as well as tried while cranking. Doesn’t seem to have much effect... points are new, old ones were badly pitted. yes I’m getting a solid 12V now that I’ve rewired the ignition system.

Got everything replaced, and stole your setup and relocated the fuel filter, makes everything easier to mess with in there. Seems to work much much better! Didn't realize how dry the carb was when cranking before, it must have not been getting any gas. Ended up using some lawnmower fuel line on the undersized outflow on the pump. Was a pretty tight fit but it seems to work really well! Thanks for all the guidance!

Hi all, Trying to get my 74' Automatic 2002 running. I've posted on here several times already, but if you haven't been "following along" here's where I'm at: Replaced (and set) points and condenser as well as most of the ignition system wiring to schematic specs Replaced fuel lines Cleaned and restored fuse box and contacts therein Replaced battery leads and cleaned all grounds (a few were really corroded) I'm now getting spark and a solid 12V across the coil, which I wasn't before, and getting solid fuel flow with no leaks or air in the line. Still can't get it to fire. I've attached a video of what its currently doing. What I've done so far has definitely improved the electrical. When I started out the starter sounded like it was on its last leg, now it sounds like it really wants to go! I'm still super new to all this, learning along the way. So I'm looking for help on next steps. I'm thinking at this point the timing must be off. I have loosened the distributor to get to the condenser, and while I made note of pretty precisely where it was before I began, I'm sure its possible I didn't get that exactly right. That being said I've tried it at several different angles in a maybe 15 degree range and little has changed. I did remove and cap the vacuum from the carb and distributor, which seems to have helped a bit, as it really sounds like its trying to fire. So is this a timing issue? If so, how would I reset everything to factory spec and basically start over? If I need to set it to TDC or an advance of some type, what would you all recommend and how do I go about doing that? It looks like I would need to remove the radiator and fan first, but if there's an easier way I'd love some advice. I've read recommendations to set it at a 20-30 advance, instead of TDC, but I've never done this before so I may be mistaken. Running a Weber 32/36 DGV with a manual choke which is disconnected (there doesn't seem to have ever been one installed...) Any help is appreciated, Thanks! IMG_1645.mov

Thanks for taking the time to re type all of that, what a pain! It connects to the metal return line, which is still connected to the tank. I've got a 4 gauge to the engine and a 10 gauge to the frame. What you said about the battery being a connector of sorts makes sense. might just add another ground to the body, or get some of those strap cables. I've read they carry a lot more current. I'll probably try this when I replace the old line at the tank. I assume this will work for the pump sender as well, and from what I can see the sleeve on the tank is still there. Thanks again for all your help! Hopefully I can get it running soon! Would be a big step forward at this point.

So I've determined that the blue line goes into the charcoal canister, from there a small black tube goes over the radiator and connects to the return line, which is still connected to the tank. Does this make sense? I may follow your lead and get a Jeep fuel filter. I've replaced the sections of fuel line and the filter, but I'm confused about the "step up" tube. The very helpful guy at auto zone couldn't think of an option that could withstand gas without deteriorating. While much more appropriately sized overall, the lines I used are 7.9mm and still too large for the outlet nipple on the pump. In the trunk where the main fuel line goes into the tank the plastic turns into an old cloth-covered gas line for the last 8" or so, and that's deteriorating and needs to be replaced. Should I cut part of the end of the plastic fuel line off when I do that? The two different lines seem to be glued together somehow. When I replace that section I could cut a small piece of the plastic line for the pump, but then how should I connect the replacement piece? I've also replaced the battery leads, and found that both the grounds off the battery had a lot of corrosion which I cleaned. I figure that could have been what caused the pitting in the points, and the busted condensers (a set in the car and in the glove, both were ruined). The negative has a 4 gauge to the engine and a 10 gauge to a tab on the body, which i replicated. There doesn't seem to be a ground from the engine to the body. Would you add one? and if so where would you attach them? Does anyone add a ground wire from the distributor to the body or engine or is it grounded by its connection itself? Thanks, once again, for all your help.

Wow, Master Tinkerer is an understatement. As always, thanks for the super informed response. Is the air cleaner the cylinder in the front corner on the side of the passenger side of the engine bay? because I believe that's where the blue vent line is connected, after running through a plastic container in the trunk mounted on the passenger wheel well. It then runs with the fuel line into the engine bay. The return line is still hooked into the tank, I'll have to check under the battery and see what's what down there. You're recommending severing that line and capping it off at both ends? and then leaving the blue vent line that comes out of the filler neck as is? I'm getting a little ahead of myself with the carb questions, as I haven't really gotten it to run yet. I'm sure I'll be posting about that soon. Probably not a bad idea to go ahead and order a rebuild kit so I can make sure everything is up to snuff. Thanks again.

I should say that I live at about 7,500 feet in a dry mountain town -- so no rust but rubber doesn't stand the test of time. The carb may be tuned and jetted appropriately already, but from what I understand it'll run best with a larger air jet, no? Don't know much about carbs, yet. To the best of my knowledge the fuel lines look solid, tho I'm a little confused about the two lines. One is the main fuel line, one is a vapor tube (its blue) and the third I'm not sure about. I think you're right about the connection to the pump itself, thanks for spotting that in my very unhelpful picture. I should say that the rubber neck to the tank filler is cracked badly. I've used permatex to seal it back up. Don't know if that could be an issue or not. Do most auto parts shops cary these that are quality, or would I need to order them online?

Thanks, I hadn't checked that carefully. I think the hoses have been replaced at some point (they're all rubber and don't look all that old). If I were to replace them what would I want? 8mm? Cloth braided or no? Might as well while I'm in there. As for the filter, there's like 90% air. Someone here said some, but it seems like a lot... If I do need to replace it, the pumps I've found online has an 8mm inlet and 7mm outlet. Does this matter if I can properly attach all hoses in some way? Its Weber 32/36 (I think). Vacuum advance distributor. Haven't rebuilt it, yet. Its pretty gnarled in there. Need to clean it better, just learned where the model is printed on the base so it may be a 36/36. Its strangely got a manual choke with no choke cable attached and no choke in the cabin, so I'm guessing it never had one. The previous owner instructed me to tap the accelerator when starting...

Hi all, I've been posting here recently about my 74 2002 Automatic and it's electrical system. Today I replaced the condenser and points, and voila I had spark! Unfortunately, I still couldn't get the engine to turn over. Sprayed some starter fluid down the carb and for the first time heard the engine turn over. Its petered out immediately, and after three more tries I went to inspect the engine and found that the mechanical fuel pump is leaking gas onto the intake manifold...yikes. Looking carefully I realized that the fuel filter is not filled with gas. Only a half oz or so sits at the bottom. I don't know if this is normal or not. Is this a fix I could do myself? I'm assuming it's a gasket in the pump itself. Thanks!

looking at hot spark. Definitely a good price! Pretty limited budget at the moment. 2 questions, does hot spark have the same automatic dwell as pertronix? I don’t have a timing light so that would be super helpful short term. Also, hot spark requires “3ohm primary resistance”. When measuring this, it’s the resistance between the + and - on the coil, right? Not the large spark wire socket? And if my coil is lower that that (I think it’s 1.5 ohm) how would I adjust this? A resistor or some type between the coil and the electronic points? Thanks!

Hi all, I'm interested in upgrading from a points system soon but I'm unsure on what would be best to replace. I'm looking at the Pertronix Ignitor II for the auto dwell, and Figure while I'm at it I may as well add a flamethrower coil to the mix. I've got a '74 automatic with a Bosch Blue coil, and no resister wire. I'll have to check the resistance of the coil itself again, but I believe I was getting somewhere around 1-1.5 ohms across the + and - on the coil. So would I need the 1.5 or 3 Ohm Flamethrower? I'm confused by articles I've read online. Or would it be a better bet to stick with the Blue Coil I have, or look into the Bosch black or red? A lot of people on here are super loyal to the latter two. Also, when installing the pertronix, where does the tach wire end up? Can it simply attach to the (-) terminal on the coil? Thanks!

I'd like to eventually. I'll never get near solving the rust issues I have until I strip it completely. For now I've got super limited space and not much budget, so I just want to get it running well and looking solid and learn what I can along the way! And yes, I will be sticking as close as possible to color codes, I've already been struggling with identifying what's what. Someone had used what looks like industrial lighting wire for part of the ignition. Super confusing. Thanks!

I think you're right! Tho there's also a large black cable off the other side of the stereo which goes into the frame so maybe the hazard wiring is some kind of on-switch when the ignition is triggered? Putting the damn console back together properly was honestly the most difficult part so far haha. That thing is a pain. Not what I was expecting. Discovered more 'butchery' down there, unsurprisingly. Lots of cursing and some zip-ties later and its holding together well. Some of the plastic for the speed nut 'clips' have snapped off the main part of the console so I'm trying to figure out a way to hold the footwell side panels on... Finally got the main wiring for the ignition figured out, and will totally replace the needed wires tomorrow. Thanks for your help on that, I was thinking about it backwards. All makes sense now. I forgot to mention that apparently when it was last being driven, the car had started dying at stop signs/lights after being driven for a little while first. This could totally be an electrical issue, I'm sure, but I've discovered that the kick down cable is completely severed. Could it be holding a high gear even when stopped? How important is that? Seems not many on here have automatics... Thanks again!

Thanks so much for all the info and the diagrams! I've finally figured out what's going on and I'm goin to fully replace the green from the fuse box and the black w/red from the starter. All this crimping can't be good for longevity. Getting a full 12V exactly across the Coil as well as the coil to the points, so that's an improvement. The car even sounds like it wants to start more than before when the starter cranks. Still haven't gotten a spark but I'm thinking it has to be the points/condenser at this point...I set the points today but to no avail. Don't have a timing light or device to set the dwell. As for the smog stuff: I'd love to get rid of anything extraneous, but I'm a little lost on the diagram exactly what exactly is part of the smog system. I think quite a bit of it is already gone, as the little round device with the red white and blue markers is totally disconnected, and a few other wires coming off the relay next to it have already been cut. The one part I'm pretty sure is still there is the brown w/black wire to the coolant temp switch. Is that poking out of the intake manifold? Also, there's only once vacuum tube coming off the weber carb to the distributor. I don't see a manifold vacuum or I don't know what it looks like...a common problem for me at this point. Thanks again for the diagrams!

Once again, thank you so much for the clear, concise answer. Especially to the smog stuff. Two last questions tho, I thought the green ignition wire is supposed to be connected before the fuse box, so the car won’t die if a fuse blows. That’s what I’ve read on here anyway... Also, is it a problem that the resistor wire is gone? A little confused about that whole deal, and which coils for which is was required. besides that everything you said makes this all suddenly make a lot more sense. Looking at different schematics I think someone rewired this according to a standard 2002/tii so the OG automatic wiring is sort of mixed in... last night I removed and cleaned the fuse box, which was super crusty and oxidized, and today I’ll go through and check all the grounds carefully. Probably good to clean the connections, no? And thanks for confirming what I suspected (and wanted to do) about the stereo. I’m pretty sure the power is wired through a large black cable from the unit, and the hazard thing is plugged in through a speaker channel or something. Something new to learn about tomorrow ?