Is there body filler between front panel and fender?

[al]

Is there body filler between front panel and fender?

I always remember the top seam being filled.I think it was even flush or maybe it was some kind of rubber stuff but my body shop is painting the car now and it looks like there’s at least a quarter inch gap on the bottom part.  And they are saying that originally it had a gap. And over the years it got filled by other body shops.

Thank you in advance for all of your help.

[Get2theBimmah]

Every one I've seen has them blended above the blinker.  A friend of mine recently picked up an original 19k mile California car and it's bonded too.  I'm in the same boat as you.  Mine is going back in for paint and I'm having him bond the two pieces together. 

[rstclark]

Don’t believe they had a gap.  Never seen one that was not filled

[02Les]

The fender to nose joint above the blinker was a leaded joint and smooth - no gap.

['76mintgrün'02]

39 minutes ago, al said:

I always remember the top seam being filled.I think it was even flush or maybe it was some kind of rubber stuff but my body shop is painting the car now and it looks like there’s at least a quarter inch gap on the bottom part.

The top seam was filled, as stated above, but the seam below the grille was left visible.  No gap, but a visible seam.  Is that what you mean by "bottom part"?

[AceAndrew]

Upper join was spot welded and leaded smooth.

 

Lower join (below grill) was left as an exposed seam. 

 

In process:

 

IMG_2793 by Adams Autosport, on Flickr

 

After:

 

IMG_9405 by Adams Autosport, on Flickr

Edited February 19, 2019 by AceAndrew

['76mintgrün'02]

39 minutes ago, AceAndrew said:

Upper join was spot welded and leaded smooth.

Brazed originally, no?

 

EDIT:  I dug up the post I was remembering

 

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by '76mintgrün'02

[AceAndrew]

Spot welded underneath.

 

On top.... brazing is technically a higher-temp. operation, this should be considered more as lead soldering.

 

EDIT: I see the source, but technically it is a soldering process due to the lower relative heat involved.  The process is referred to as "tinning" , "lead burning", and "soft solder".  At the end of the day it's largely semantics though.  I just remember because my old welding instructor drilling the differences into us.

Edited February 19, 2019 by AceAndrew

['76mintgrün'02]

Technically brazing filler melts at temps above 825 degrees F and soldering below that temp.

 

Doesn't that seam typically have yellow colored brazing and lead filler over that?

 

(never having taken one apart)

 

 

[oh2ryan]

@MOJOJOY sigh.

[AceAndrew]

Yep, you've got it, as far as the temps go.

 

There are a few places that were brazed on a 2002.  

 

B-pillar

 

File_000 (2) by Adams Autosport, on Flickr

 

Door

 

File_004 (2) by Adams Autosport, on Flickr

 

I haven't seen indication of brazing underneath the lead on the 2002's whose fender's I've removed.  There's always a chance I'm wrong though.

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by AceAndrew

[Simeon]

1 hour ago, AceAndrew said:

 

Spot welded underneath.

 

 

I have never understood how they would do that. I can’t see how the could get opposing electrodes in underneath the wing and then into the nose unless it was a ‘single sided’ spot weld that relied upon pressure from one side. 

[AceAndrew]

You know, you are right.  They certainly weren’t spot welded from what I’ve seen.  More like “welded in spots”.  

[adawil2002]

This has been tack welded then soft lead soldered above the grills and ground smooth. Notice the gap below the grills where the lower fender meets the nose.

 

 

[TobyB]

Oh, dear.

 

Ok.

 

The original way was probably lead over braze.  But that joint often takes a bit of pressure to

get it aligned in all 3 dimensions, so at a (pretty early) point, it becomes common to find one spot

weld at the end of the tab, since the spot welder electrodes effectively pin the joint together.  And

trying to pin something with braze sucks.

 

The reason this matters is that, if you're working with original panels, lead causes one kind of problem

with reattachment, and requires one solution, and braze causes a similar one, but requires a hotter solution.

And if it's truly original, and you try heating it to free the brazing, it may not pop loose due to a spot weld

that's very hard to find if you don't know it's there.

If you don't know what's  coating the steel and try to reattach things with arc welding, it can get ugly.

 

If it's all been replaced, cleaned up, or cut away, it doesn't matter at all.

 

And yes, the lower gap should be exposed,  but very tight.  If it's not, look for distorted flanges,

misaligned fasteners, or a headlight bucket that's not seated into the fender groove.

OR a "Mobile Tradition of close is good enough" fender.

 

t

jus' cauze