Points vs Pertronix Article by Rob Siegel

['76mintgrün'02]

John76 sent me this dual point distributor for my birthday last year.  Outa the blue!  Super nice gesture.  Maybe one of these would work for your dual pertronix install, Simeon?  Wasted spark on an M10 perhaps?

[Jimmy]

23 minutes ago, Vicleonardo1 said:

 

Vs a $500 1-2-3? I wonder how centsable that would be?

It appears there isn’t a wrong approach, just what one’s preferences and pocketbooks allow. 

 

If I wasn’t running points at the moment, I would go with a Pertronix  with some sort of backup.

 

Cheers!

 

I run a 123 now. I'm not completely enamoured with either the windows or bluetooth interface solutions, but the customizable curve is wonderful. I should try to bribe Tom into helping re-create my curve on a mechanical dizzy. Then if the 123 fails I have backup.

[Jimmy]

20 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

John76 sent me this dual point distributor for my birthday last year.  Outa the blue!  Super nice gesture.  Maybe one of these would work for your dual pertronix install, Simeon?  Wasted spark on an M10 perhaps?

 

Brilliant. But I'd need a coil wire splitter so I could run two coils. I'm sure Kaleco's got me covered.

[Simeon]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 

Brilliant. But I'd need a coil wire splitter so I could run two coils. I'm sure Kaleco's got me covered.

 

MSD redundant systems. Going a bit further than keeping a spare set of points and condenser in the glove box. 

 

[Greg_Tchilinguirian]

I've run the Crane optical system for almost 18 years without issue. Periodically I have to clean the optics with a q-tip. I know it's time when there are occasional misfires at speed, which is usually after tens of thousands of miles.

The trigger box is hooked up to an MSD 6al (those fail, but you can easily bypass) and a blue coil.

I think this setup eats sparkplugs faster than normal, oh well.

Years ago a buddy of mine used to run pertronix in his Vw Buggy. After burning up a couple of them he dropped by with one that had failed and asked if I could do anything with it. I gave it a good once over then dumped it in the trash. The buggy was always a work in progress and leaving the ignition on would burn up the pertronix in short order. I let him borrow my sears dwell meter and advised him to go back to points.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

[jgerock]

11 minutes ago, Greg_Tchilinguirian said:

Years ago a buddy of mine used to run pertronix in his Vw Buggy. After burning up a couple of them he dropped by with one that had failed and asked if I could do anything with it. I gave it a good once over then dumped it in the trash. The buggy was always a work in progress and leaving the ignition on would burn up the pertronix in short order. I let him borrow my sears dwell meter and advised him to go back to points.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
 

Biggest killer of points on the aircooled VW: leaving the key on.

[Conserv]

On 2/2/2019 at 11:04 AM, '76mintgrün'02 said:

AMEN Hal!  Although points are just getting broken in at 3k miles   for the reason jimk mentions above.

 

This article has a bunch of interesting information on Points/PerTronix.  

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/PertronixAdjust.html

 

So....how rapid is the wear of the rubbing block?

 

I was a very happy points user for decades, oblivious to the wear that was occurring, under the cover my distributor caps, and affecting my cars’ dwell!

 

I also, however, blindly followed my car manufacturers’ service recommendations. For the ‘02’s, my U.S. supplement Owner’s handbook — for the ‘76 — recommended replacement intervals of 12,500 miles for points and condenser. My receipts show that I kept at least to that standard.

 

Below are the instructions from the ‘76’s original July 1975 Owner’s handbook (photos one through three).

 

If I was replacing my points every 12,000 miles, or less, and greasing the points’ rubbing block, per the manufacturer’s instructions, are we saying that my dwell was possibly out of spec before the next change of points? The dwell specs I followed showed (fourth photo below) a range of 58-64 degrees. My initial target was always 61 degrees.

 

I guess my point is “Is the dwell shift a real concern, or only a concern if I’m trying to squeeze 50,000 miles out a points set designed to last 12,000?”

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Conserv

[avoirdupois]

4 hours ago, Conserv said:

I was a very happy points user for decades, oblivious to the wear that was occurring, under the cover my distributor caps, and affecting my cars’ dwell!

 

 

Given another recent thread  https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/236153-mark-ten-b-cdi-capacitive-discharge-ignition-should-i/  I was waiting for "Beavercreek" Mike to ring the "old school" capacitive discharge bell and the fact that using this venerable system “virtually” eliminates points wear.  For more information, including “instructions” look here>> https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/136076-delta-mark-ten-cdiradioshack-archerkit-question/

 

I have one car that has been equipped with a '70s permatune capacitive discharge system and has not had the points exchanged since the ‘80s.  In the early-mid '70s, German cousins, Porsche and Audi, fit similar systems on some of their cars - while retaining points.  The phrenolicrubbing block has occasionally been lubricated with a match head sized dab of distributor grease from a tube marked “Accel” or "Bosch."  Not unlike the “Allison” optically triggered system (which is installed on another car) the points’ contact area also gets wiped clean.  As noted in another thread, these CD systems are time-tested but in my experience after years of service may suffer from poor weather protection.  Epoxy sealed units probably not so much. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some day  .  .  .  perhaps someone can address another alternative ignition system, the Jacobs system that a few VW diehards revere.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by avoirdupois

[Jimmy]

My car came with a Jacobs and it does eliminate point wear. What I don't know is whether leaving the key on with a CD ignition in the picture will still cause problems as it does with the stock system/pertronix. I disconnected it when I installed my 123. 

[Vicleonardo1]

I can say I am learning quite a bit here. One thing for sure, I am staying away from rural South Carolina for awhile...

[Mike A]

whatever happened to ….

 

and....

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Mike A

['76mintgrün'02]

3 minutes ago, Mike A said:

whatever happened to ….

 

[Mike A]

LOL....yes, they would definitely be SOL in rural So.Carolina

[avoirdupois]

3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

My car came with a Jacobs and it does eliminate point wear. What I don't know is whether leaving the key on with a CD ignition in the picture will still cause problems as it does with the stock system/pertronix. I disconnected it when I installed my 123. 

 

Any pics of the Jacob's installation? 

IIRC, Jacobs recommends a huge spark plug electrode gap, and am curious whether you followed that advice and whether there were any noticeable operational benefits.  Vaguely recall someone touting extremely large gaps using Bosch silber plugs, WR9LS (?), but wondered then (and now) if the extended electrode might not incur some "resistance" with valves or pistons.  And, NO, I am not advocating using this plug in the stock M10 platform,  but I remain curious about the Jacobs CDI and these plugs.

 

 

 

 

   

[avoirdupois]

1 hour ago, Mike A said:

whatever happened to ….

 

 

I think a point file is generally favored over an emery board because the latter is generally coarser and tends to shed abrasives that land - where you would not want them.