engine and drivetrain Where To Start On Restoration ?

[fsf517]

It's a single carb model Hans , but no rust. The project intimidates me a bit. I will most likely work with 90% of the original parts . Some of the stainless is slightly imperfect, but it's going back on the car. In the paint shop now. Should be Chamonix in a few days.

[Mike Self]

Not sure if I should call what I did with my '69 as a "restoration"--more like a cosmetic refurbishment.  It was in good shape mechanically, as it had been my daily driver for 30 years--it primarily needed bodywork to repair those 30 years of salt driving.  I kept driving it while doing the bodywork--didn't look very pretty for over five years as I replaced fenders, doors, welded on rear wheel opening lips, lower valence panels front and rear etc.  

 

When that was all done I took it to a local body shop where we removed the remaining trim (mostly lights and door handles) and all the glass except the windshield.  They did some final bodywork that was beyond my skills, then prepped and painted it. They had the car for about six months, working on it when their regular production work was slow (I had a beater CRX to drive).  When the paint was done, I put enough lights on it to drive home, then started reinstalling trim, bumpers and glass.   The little picture with the posting is the car...

 

If your car is mechanically good, and the body is basically sound (no structural rust), and if you have at least some of the bodywork skills, I'd do the body first, then take care of the mechanical stuff as it's needed.  I finished my '69's "refurbishment" 13 years ago but still haven't done any major mechanical work, other than front suspension bushing/balljoint/bearing replacement--just routine maintenance items--brake pads, rotors, wheel cylinders etc.  

 

The more you can drive it during the process, the less likely you'll lose interest, get frustrated and give up before it's done.

 

cheers and happy tinkering.

 

mike

Edited December 4, 2013 by mike

[FB73tii]

Nick, can you tell us more about the car and post some photos? What do you ultimately want? A nice dependable daily driver, a very nice dependable daily driver, a high-performance setup, a concours car, or something else? And more importantly, what does it *need* now?

Rather than build a budget from bottom up, think about what you want to spend from top down. Also think about the time frame--can you do it in phases at $3k/year for 10 years, or in larger or smaller chunks? As folks have said, there are many ways to approach this, both in terms of level of detail and sequencing, and costs can vary from several thousand to several tens of thousands. You won't get it all done in a year no matter what, and I know folks that have taken 20 years to complete their project and could not drive it until done. So you have a range from "rolling restoration" to "concours".

As to your specific questions:
New paint = rust repair + new trim = $3K to $20K+
Interior = carpet, headliner, door panels, stereo, steering wheel = several $K
Wheels = stock refurb to 3-piece BBS = Several $hundred to several $K
Engine = do-it your self basic rebuild to all-out turbo/EFI/etc = $1K to $20K+

I am in the camp of making sure the shell is good before investing too much in the project. Since you have only had the car 6 years there is a lot that can be hidden under the paint--rust, bondo, deep structural rust, etc.

I did my first body resto on the '73tii, removed everything (trim, glass, interior) but left engine in (should have taken it out) and trailered it to the body shop. As with all body/paint work not under your direct control, it took several more months than originally estimated, not due to the car, but "Joe was sick today" etc. Body shops make money from crash repair, not full paint jobs. Did the headliner myself, a real pain.

The second resto was the full bare-metal build of my race car (see my avatar photo). So that is everything all at once, but I used an existing engine. Took three years and an estimated 3000 hours of my time. If I am worth $25/hour for this type of work then that is $75K in labor, plus about $10-$15K in parts and final paint (hey, there's that $90K figure!). I learned a lot, but it was exhausting and hard to motivate in the third year. So, I'd say don't do everything at once!
 

Best of luck,

Fred '69 (rolling resto race car) & '74tii (ongoing race car project)

Edited December 4, 2013 by FB73tii

[BLUNT]

I would never do a nut and bolt resto again. I did one on my first s14 powered 02 and I loved doing it..  But once it was done all I did was drive it to shows. And I did drive it. I put 42k miles on it but I much prefer a driver class car with 200% mechanicals. Never worry about a ding. Just drive the hell out of it

[mlcrum]

It really comes down to what you consider a "restoration". What will meet your satisfaction and intended use? How much can you do yourself etc? I don't have the time or space and bought my 73 fully restored. It changed hands a couple of times from the original owner. The car was restored in 2005 by The Werk Shop. Very high end restoration. You can see a few photos in my garage. Most of the stock appearance was maintained with a few exceptions. Stage 2 motor build and the normal modifications to suspension etc that go along with the increased performance . TR mentioned in an earlier post that a full restoration from a top shop would run $90K. He's not far off.  I have all the original invoices and they totaled $106K.  Labor is the driver. Rates at high end 02 shops are running $75-110/hr. I estimate that 60-70% of the $106K was labor based on the invoices. I was lucky and picked the car up for less than $40K. I will spend another $2-3K before I am satisfied.

[Grover]

On my 2002 I did pretty much all the big mechanical stuff first (over the course of 5 years or so) and then the body pretty much last. I recently picked up a '65 Alfa that needs a full restoration, and I've decided to follow the same path. I think my basic reasoning is that I first want to truly understand how the car needs to be set-up mechanically to drive the way I want it to. Do I need to roll the fender lips to run the wheels and ride height I want? If I want to tidy up the engine bay a bit are there holes that should be welded shut or obsolete brackets to be removed? My plan, at least right now, is to get it set-up mechanically first then drive it looking all ratty for a while before getting into the body. Just another perspective...

[emmodg]

Without a doubt - body first! No reason to put money and time into mechanicals before you see what kind of rust/dent banging you're gonna get yourself into. Bodywork is time intensive and ain't cheap! Engines and springs and shocks and such are easy to bolt up. They can also be much cheaper compared to bodywork and paint. (You can put $5000 into paint alone! You can do it cheaper but you gotta shop around.)

Figure out what you want as a final product- A Pebble Cheap garage queen or a bad ass little DD or weekend warrior? I've built some bad ass little head turners and reliable little hot rods for "cheap" but I started with dry or relatively dry cars.

Do it yourself and you'll save a TON of money!! Don't let anyone scare you about what you can't do "right". Take your time, get some books and use this forum. Bodywork and paint can be an art. I do as much hammer and dolly work and patching as I can and let my painter take over from there. You probably won't be shaping pig cheek flares right away but if you have a solid body to start with it isn't so bad.

Give yourself a budget. You can do it. Look around for pricing and estimate.

Bodywork - a little patching and banging by you? (Get a little 110v mig - you don't need a big 220v for bodywork) - Maybe $200 in materials?

Paint - How much prep can you do? Paint is aaaaaaaaaaaaall about surface prep! $1000 - $5000 If you learn how to color sand and buff yourself you can make a $1000 spray job look GREAT!

Interior - carpet kit $250, Door cards $250 - $600 (depending upon a new or used set) Headliner $200-$300 (a trick to do right) Seats $600 to re- upholster yours or a set of OMP Classic shell seats, Interior work can nickel and dime you. It aaaaaaall depends on how "lux" you wanna get

Wheels - Are you going for reps or authentics (BBS, Alpina, Borani, Rial or close-enough copies) $300-$1500

Engine - You know the saying - Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? $300-$10k

My "theory/belief" - these little cars are too damn fun and simple to NOT wanna at least try and restore yourself. Buy it. Build it. Drive it.

[RoyW]

Start with a big balance in your checkbook!   On a more serious note... have a vision, make a plan, figure to not stick to it (scope creep unually wins), enjoy the process/journey, take your time, and be prepared to smile a lot when your done... or nearly so, as you're never really done!  Best of luck with your endevor.

 

-RoyW

[JAS]

I would second the opinion to make sure the body has no serious structural (aka rust) issues first. I started with mechanicals first, fixing this, that, and generally learning about 02s as I went. Started collecting body panels and other sheet metal, with major plans to do the bodywork myself. Was a great experience until the realization that the structural (rust) issues hiding under the old body work were far worse than I first thought. The cost to fix was so high that sanity took over and the project came to a stop. Luckily, a near rust proof 02 came along about the same time. While I paid a lot more for it than the first one, I am way ahead and really enjoying seeing the fruits of my labour. 

 

Also second the suggestion that you drive your 02 when you can / if you can during the restoration. It will quickly remind you why you are doing this in the first place! 

Edited December 8, 2013 by JAS

[glemon]

If you are doing a total everything redone, nut and bolt restoration I would make an assessment of what needs work, then you strip it all down, and it doesn't matter that much really if you do body or mechanicals first, but eventually you get done with the bodywork, paint the thing, and put the rebuilt and prettied up components back on.  If you want to do a running restoration (more fun, but the finished product may not be as satisfactory if you are looking for something close to perfection) you can mess with the mechainical bits (as someone suggested) drive and enjoy the improvements, move on to the next project, and eventually paint it, but when oyu paint you will either need to 1) take off the bits you already took off once to rebuild and improve; or 2) do a lot of masking and taping, and still not getting every little bit repainted (that perfectionist thing if it bugs you).  If you are satisfied with the look of the paint under the hood and such the running restoration method is a lot more viable.

[Mikesmalaga72]

Hello,

 

Preface... B = bring M = money W = With.

 

I have been on a long journey on my car but I chose to take my time

Start reading publications like  http://www.bentleypublishers.com/bmw/repair-information/bmw-02-restoration-guide.html

 

The 20 something dollar book is specifically for the 02 and was one of my first publications to gain perspective. It is written in UK english terms. Lots of tips, tricks and some modifications.  

 

Learn from all those here at this site whom I highly respect and at the car shows. 

Another is to use the search functions here to access lots of minutiae.   

 

Go to a few local Bimmer shows and gatherings get a feel for what is out there. I admire the folks who are actually driving and enjoying their 02`s as rolling restos etc.... 

 

Send pics and some folks may be better able to interpret your car.

 

Good luck. 

Edited December 8, 2013 by Mikes 02

[DaveBMX]

ok heres my 2 cents as i am approaching the end of what i can my 'restoration'. I have done all the work myself except when it gets sprayed in jan as that is going to a professional. With doing all the prep work myself that has been booked for £1100 which is pretty good. I wanted my car to go and look great but i dont care about winning prizes at shows. by the time its reassembled after paint it will have taken 10-11 months involving full rust removal including a lot of new metal including floor pan/sills/towers wings etc. i started with all that first so i had a good base to fit all the parts to and then moved onto suspension to get it rolling and then engine then brakes then electronics then exterior body and paint prep. I have counted it up and i have spent more than 800 hours so far in that time which has basically been all weekend every weekend and nights after work since 1st of april 2012 when i started. I couldnt weld before i started but had reasonable mechanical skills. everything though i had to learn as i went though as i have upgraded pretty much everything, bmw m44 engine and 5 speed, turbo body kit and wide wheels, brembo and volvo brake upgrade etc. Cost so far has been £4250 for the car and then i have spent around 5 or 6k on tools and materials including the cost to spray. I can say though that i dont think i will ever do it again and will just keep this car forever as it has been a hard battle to do it in the time i have done it in but for the money spent i think it is a bargain but only because i didnt pay the labour. uk costs would be about £40 an hour i reckon for this kind of work so multiply by 800 and you get an eye watering £32000!!! 

 

 

this isnt my car but it really helped me grasp what i was doing as a visual rundown of whats involved. if you dont have structural rust like this then you will have a much better time than me or the guy that did this had!!

 

http://www.classiccarworkshop.ie/1602.html

 

 

Dave

Edited December 9, 2013 by DaveBMX

[Rocan]

Having done restoration work professionally, among a couple of my own projects, here is my 2 cents.

First things first, do a top to bottom check of the chassis. Poke and pry as much as possible. Find all the rust spots. If you can borrow a paint thickness checker, it makes checking for body work a bit easier. Otherwise a magnet will suffice for finding huge spots of filler. If you plan to paint it, it doesn't really matter what the paint looks like so long as the metal underneath is solid. An ugly car means you can get a good deal, so long as the rust is minimal. Floor pans are easy to repair, as are any flat pieces. Seam and structural rust are a whole different story.

When you are sure the body is a good candidate for a restoration, start on the mechanicals. When you move parts around, the body gets scratched. Old parts are grimy and you don't want them anywhere near fresh paint. Get all of the mechanicals cleaned, repaired and painted while still having a tatty body. You will work faster not worrying about scratching your paint or getting some dirt on things. Once the mechanicals are 100 percent, you can start on the body work. Drop both subframes, and repair the chassis on a rotisserie if possible. Interior needs to be out at this point and this is THE ONLY way to do it RIGHT. Get the body patched up, the rust cut out, have it all sandblasted, cleaned, primed and painted inside and out. Get it back from the shop and drop it back on its subframes, which are already perfectly clean and restored. With a bare interior the rest is cake; bolt all of the interior and trim work back on and bobs your uncle.

My car looks like crap but it goes like stink, and underneath the hood the jokes stop. I've seen some very pretty cars, but when you pop the hood and see a rats nest of loose wiring and when they don't perform as good as they look, well, they are worthless. They're cars, not statues. And honestly, once you realize how nice it is to work without worrying about your paint or interior, you may not even want to paint your car. I like being able to set a wrench down on my hood without worrying about a scratch, and what fun is it to worry?

As they say, the first scratch is the one that hurts the most.