Getrag 245 Installation Questions

[Mark92131]

OK, I installed my subframe with the S14 Motor and Getrag 245 transmission and found that the crossmember I was planning to use was to short to span the mounts (stock mounts that were cut off and moved back for the Getrag 245).  So I will fabricate a new, longer crossmember, but had some questions on how to position the trans in the tunnel.  Right now the trans sits on the driver's side of the tunnel.  As I lift the back of the trans and push it up, I can shift it so it its more square to the tunnel.  I am using the shifter kit from Blunt and the lower bracket for the support rod interferes with the position of the crossmember support mount, (the bolt head touches the mount).  When the trans is square to the tunnel, the shift platform is on the extreme right side of the gear shift hole.  In order to complete the assembly, I have some questions.

 

1. I was told that the foam donut is installed inside the gear shift cup in early cars, is that correct?
2. How close does the shift platform come to the top of the tunnel, touching or a few mm's lower?
3. Does the gear shift sit in the middle of the hole, or can it be offset when the trans is centered in the tunnel?
4. The PO was either using a modified 320i shift platform or an IE platform that doesn't use a support rod when welding the crossmember mounts.  In order to avoid the lower bracket hitting the crossmember mount, I would need to shift the trans further to the passenger side, which may not be possible.  Any thoughts?
5. When the trans is centered in the tunnel, the shift platform is not sitting square with the top of the tunnel, is this problematic?
6. When adjusting the length of the support rod, how tight should it be pulling on the shift platform and the bracket on the transmission?

 

I need to have the trans sitting pretty high in the tunnel to avoid having the passenger side idler arm hit the S14 exhaust manifold while turning.  I'm trying to avoid installing this wrong and have squeaks, rattles and buzzing once this motor fires.

 

Could you take a look and provide some feedback?

 

Thanks,

 

 

Mark92131

[Cabbage Fumes]

33 minutes ago, Mark92131 said:

I can only advise on what I personally do on my installs:

To fix the support - crossmember interference issue, I use the bolt directly below the U bracket as its attachment point. For this, you would have to get a longer support shaft than the one pictured. Another version that will let you keep the shaft you have is to use the hollow spacer from a swaybar end link, using the same lower attachment point and a long bolt. It would be: rear of the case-spacer-U bracket with a bolt through it. This will put the support at a steeper angle and clear the crossmember easily. The support is there to stabilize the front blocks. It shouldn't be pressing up or pulling down anything (not weight bearing).

It's too close to the underside of the tunnel.

 

The shifter should be centered. Lowering the trans will do that automatically. The case will be slightly towards the left side of the tunnel, and you usually do yourself a favor and clearance the tunnel to give the slave a little more room.

The reality is the shifter centered in the tunnel hole and the ball of the shifter just below the opening on the tunnel tells you everything you need to know about where the crossmember hangers go. Getting the driveshaft on the flattest possible plane has a higher priority than worrying about the S14 exhaust manifold hitting. If, after the trans correctly leveled and installed, part of the steering is contacting the exhaust manifold you were planning to use, it means you need to change your plans on using that particular exhaust manifold.

 

 

[jgerock]

Foam donut pad goes inside the cabin on your car.

My shifter is off center to the right, but not as much as yours.

My Blunt shift support platform is very close (almost touching) to the tunnel ceiling.

[jimk]

What dictates where the transmission should sit is when the driveshaft is in alignment (straight) with the engine/transmission shaft.  Straight includes up and down and side to side.

Gearshift parts and everything else land where they land.

[Lorin]

2 minutes ago, jimk said:

What dictates where the transmission should sit is when the driveshaft is in alignment (straight) with the engine/transmission shaft.  Straight includes up and down and side to side.

Gearshift parts and everything else land where they land.

Agreed. 
 

A big picture way to look at it is that the transmission output shaft should be pointing directly at the input shaft of the differential. You can verify this with a laser on the output flange of the transmission. 
 

The drivetrain in a 2002 is installed in the chassis at a left to right angle. The front of the crank is offset to the left side of the car and the differential input shaft is offset to the right side of the car. 
 

 

[halboyles]

40 minutes ago, jimk said:

What dictates where the transmission should sit is when the driveshaft is in alignment (straight) with the engine/transmission shaft.  Straight includes up and down and side to side.

Gearshift parts and everything else land where they land.

This is true but the only portion of the driveshaft that needs to be in good alignment with the transmission is the front portion.  This is the best insurance that the Guibo will not be destroyed by constant warping as it rotates.  The universal joints and CSB make up for any misalignment with the differential. 

And as @jimk says, "everything else land where they land."

 

We created the driveshaft alignment tool just for the purpose of perfectly aligning the front of the driveshaft with the transmission.  Here's a description of the use of the tool and a link to our website.

 

Driveshaft Alignment Tool | 2002s Only

WWW.2002SONLY.COM

---

Aligning the front half of the driveshaft with the transmission is critical to correct installation of the guibo. This tool simplifies that operation by ensuring that alignment. Bolt it in between the transmission output shaft flange and the driveshaft, make adjustments to the motor/tranny...

 

Transmission-Driveshaft Alignment Tool.pdf

[M3M3]

locating the transmission mounts is the LAST thing you do in 245 install.

 

install diff loosely, install DS and guibo

 

support back of trans with a jack or something

 

make sure right side engine mounts are LOOSE to help moving trans.

 

now...COMPLETELY IGNORE ANY ALIGNMENT WITH THE DIFF!!!!!!  do not use any "DS alignment jig" that goes length of DS. worthless.

 

the ONLY thing that matters is that the output flange of the trans and the input flange of the DS are square to each other.

 

move the back of the trans and the CSB  up and down, back and forth to get those flanges square.  this can be done by eye, but the 2002sonly tool makes it easy.

 

once they are square, you will now know where the back of the trans should be and where the CSB will need to be.

 

the front and back half of the DS DO NOT need to be aligned.  there can, and probably will, be a slight kink at the universal joint. that is ok.  that is what it is there for.

 

BTW, in EVERY 245 install i have done(including with an S14), the transmission ended up jammed all the way to driver side of tunnel and all the way up against the top of the tunnel.  the CSB's all ended up needing to be moved all the way to passenger side and lowered below the bracket by a few washers.

Edited May 2, 2023 by M3M3M3

[jimk]

For the folks that ponder all things around them --

 

If the Giubo is misaligned, each driveshaft revolution stretches and compresses the outer skin of the Guibo.

 

Each mile of travel, the driveshaft turns over 3000 times.

 

The work energy used to flex the Giubo goes into the rubber as heat.   Flexing + heat and the thick rubber fails in no time.

 

I'm at about 30K behind the S14 and driving without a spare Giubo in the trunk, maybe I should be.

[M3M3]

14 hours ago, Mark92131 said:

I need to have the trans sitting pretty high in the tunnel to avoid having the passenger side idler arm hit the S14 exhaust manifold while turning.  I'm trying to avoid installing this wrong and have squeaks, rattles and buzzing once this motor fires.

and on this point...

 

get a BFH and massage(dent) the manifold pipe slightly where it is close to the idler arm.  not kidding.  don't  be bashful.  just a slight ding and you will get all the clearance needed.  

[Mark92131]

Thank you for your insight on getting this right.  I ordered the alignment tool from @halboyles.  The only other issue I may need to solve is the bolt on the back of the trans support rod is touching the driver's side trans mount.  I may need to use a low profile Allen Head bolt and some trimming to get the clearance I need.

 

Thanks again,

 

Mark92131

[jgerock]

Here’s my 69 using the Blunttech components

[2002#3]

M3M3M3,

     Your statement, "BTW, in EVERY 245 install i have done(including with an S14),...the CSB's all ended up needing to be moved all the way to passenger side and lowered below the bracket by a few washers." are exactly my findings, also. 

     The CSB ended up visually out of place, like you stated, down and tight against the passenger side.  Emotionally and spiritually it's difficult to accept when you're doing it - "this just does not look or feel right".  However, the result can be perfect alignment.  Before being tightened, all 6 guibo bolts could easily be pressed in and out with only finger pressure. 

 

Mark92131,

     Good luck.

 

[Rodolfo Lasparri]

8 hours ago, M3M3M3 said:

locating the transmission mounts is the LAST thing you do in 245 install.

 

install diff loosely, install DS and guibo

 

support back of trans with a jack or something

 

make sure right side engine mounts are LOOSE to help moving trans.

 

now...COMPLETELY IGNORE ANY ALIGNMENT WITH THE DIFF!!!!!!  do not use any "DS alignment jig" that goes length of DS. worthless.

 

the ONLY thing that matters is that the output flange of the trans and the input flange of the DS are square to each other.

 

move the back of the trans and the CSB  up and down, back and forth to get those flanges square.  this can be done by eye, but the 2002sonly tool makes it easy.

 

once they are square, you will now know where the back of the trans should be and where the CSB will need to be.

 

the front and back half of the DS DO NOT need to be aligned.  there can, and probably will, be a slight kink at the universal joint. that is ok.  that is what it is there for.

 

BTW, in EVERY 245 install i have done(including with an S14), the transmission ended up jammed all the way to driver side of tunnel and all the way up against the top of the tunnel.  the CSB's all ended up needing to be moved all the way to passenger side and lowered below the bracket by a few washers.

+1 on all of this. Do yourself another favor and have the slave hardline installed too before final location. I have an older 2002 Haus kit and it is damn near impossible to tighten that line otherwise even with with the tunnel massaging. As M3M3M3 said separately too - don't be afraid to add that clearance. As to your other questions, my shifter is barely off center to the right and very little clearance to the tunnel.

 

Good luck!

[jp5Touring]

On 5/2/2023 at 7:35 PM, 2002#3 said:

M3M3M3,

     Your statement, "BTW, in EVERY 245 install i have done(including with an S14),...the CSB's all ended up needing to be moved all the way to passenger side and lowered below the bracket by a few washers." are exactly my findings, also. 

     The CSB ended up visually out of place, like you stated, down and tight against the passenger side.  Emotionally and spiritually it's difficult to accept when you're doing it - "this just does not look or feel right".  However, the result can be perfect alignment.  Before being tightened, all 6 guibo bolts could easily be pressed in and out with only finger pressure. 

 

Mark92131,

     Good luck.

 

My csb looked just like this and agree it doesn't look right.  Things started out great but oh 750-800 miles in  I started to get some driveshaft vibrations on my way to the Vintage.  Today I checked underneath and found the following.

Driveshaft and csb look good but I'm pretty sure the driver side inner  velocity joint  was making some definite clicking noise. Also checked rear disc brakes and driver side rotor is definitely warped. New rotors ordered and hope to get it up

on a hoist Tuesday to get a better look at CV joints.  So still chasing vibrations.