Plastic Runner restoration

[Einspritz]

Here is a tidbit data point.

 

one of my pumps, 92004011 B-1, 3W 01852 dtd 10/72 likely came from SN: 2761362, a white sunroof car.

 

the second, PLO4-124.02, A1 3X 008(?)00 dtd 6/73

 

Buried under layers of tarps is my (I believe) '72 Euro almost spec engine, 9.6:1, E12, early pump; i do not have the SN of that engine handy but I bought it from Franz Fechner  and had Dave Cruz do the machine work, so i can't know what the plates say, but do have the data.....................somewhere.

 

my first question is when did they go from plastic runners to metal?

 

I would like to believe that the Euro cars had different pumps from the U.S.

 

And further, those of you that have Precision Automotive Research rebuild your pump, can you provide the pump plate info, the casting date, and most importantly, the data readout from the calibration sheet for the P1, P2, P3 P4 curves?

 

Since all the rebuilders save for PAR don't record the P curves' fuel it will be hard to really asses the differences in the pumps.

 

That's it for now, Tii geeks.

 

 

[Conserv]

12 hours ago, Einspritz said:

Here is a tidbit data point.

 

one of my pumps, 92004011 B-1, 3W 01852 dtd 10/72 likely came from SN: 2761362, a white sunroof car.

 

the second, PLO4-124.02, A1 3X 008(?)00 dtd 6/73

 

Buried under layers of tarps is my (I believe) '72 Euro almost spec engine, 9.6:1, E12, early pump; i do not have the SN of that engine handy but I bought it from Franz Fechner  and had Dave Cruz do the machine work, so i can't know what the plates say, but do have the data.....................somewhere.

 

my first question is when did they go from plastic runners to metal?

 

I would like to believe that the Euro cars had different pumps from the U.S.

 

And further, those of you that have Precision Automotive Research rebuild your pump, can you provide the pump plate info, the casting date, and most importantly, the data readout from the calibration sheet for the P1, P2, P3 P4 curves?

 

Since all the rebuilders save for PAR don't record the P curves' fuel it will be hard to really asses the differences in the pumps.

 

That's it for now, Tii geeks.

 

 

Ted,

 

Below is U.S.-only data. I haven’t a clue as to the comparable Euro VIN’s, but I’ll bet most of it is in the parts catalogue.

 

By Head Type:

VIN’s 2760001 (May 10, 1971) through 2761943 (before June 5, 1972): 121 heads, plastic runners, etc.

 

VIN’s 2761944 (June 5, 1972) through 2762014 (after June 5, 1972): E12 heads, aluminum runners, etc.

 

VIN’s 2762015 (after June 5, 1972) through 2762372 (approx. August 1, 1972): 121 heads, etc.

 

 VIN’s 2762373 (approx. August 1, 1972) through 2764521 (approx. July 16, 1973): E12 heads, etc.

 

VIN’s 2780001 (November 1973) through 2782927 (December 1974): E12 heads, etc.

By Model Year:

1972: VIN’s 2760001 (May 10, 1971) through 2762629 (approx. August 16, 1972)

 

1973: VIN’s 2762630 (October 6, 1972) though 2764521 (approx. July 16, 1973)

 

1974: VIN’s 2780001 (November 1973) through 2782927 (December 1974)

 

(Your 3 W 01852 is exactly 65 pumps after my 3 W 01787, both of which have October 1972 housings. But VIN 2761362 was manufactured April 1972, so not a likely starting point for a pump manufactured October 1972 or later.)
 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gwb72tii]

Stick with plastic. Installing the runners is a bitch but you can help the process by heating both ends at the same time in warm water prior to installing. The runners are durable.
A ‘72tii is the most collectible year of the tii’s. As Toby points out, aluminum runners are more reliable, but you wreck the car being stock, losing value at the same time. Any serious tii nut looking under the hood and finding aluminum intake runners is going to cringe.

DON’T DO IT. 
You have a very special car, especially if the motor matches the VIN.

DON’T DO IT!!!!!!!!

 

[mvliotta]

15 hours ago, Conserv said:

Vince and you are ready to truck on down to the local BMW dealership to get your primary wiring checked on that super-duper, fancy-schmancy, space-age diagnostic computer! Oh, wait, those were discarded by 1982... ??☹️
 

Regardless, the ports look fabulous!

Truth be told...my port on the valve cover is not connected (yet!). In fact, NOTHING is connected as I’m stripping the car for paint. 
 

Looks like (@tomphot) has it all wired up.  Would be interested to see how that’s done.  

[tomphot]

4 minutes ago, mvliotta said:

 

Looks like (@tomphot) has it all wired up.  Would be interested to see how that’s done.  

Nope, there wasn’t wire continuity in the big block thing.  I drilled out the rubber and made everything look like it was wired up. 

[irdave]

7 hours ago, gwb72tii said:

Stick with plastic. Installing the runners is a bitch but you can help the process by heating both ends at the same time in warm water prior to installing. The runners are durable.
A ‘72tii is the most collectible year of the tii’s. As Toby points out, aluminum runners are more reliable, but you wreck the car being stock, losing value at the same time. Any serious tii nut looking under the hood and finding aluminum intake runners is going to cringe.

DON’T DO IT. 
You have a very special car, especially if the motor matches the VIN.

DON’T DO IT!!!!!!!!

 

 

Honestly, I disagree.  If you have all the stock plastic parts in a box and have the aluminum bits on there when you go to sell it, and you say it runs more reliably this way, but here's all the stock parts so you can put it back... In no way does that diminish the value of the car.  If you're really just changing the pipes and not the head and pump (and CR) as Ted suggested, it's what?  A couple hours?

 

I would offer that any 'serious tii nut' that gets butt hurt about that should go back to rubbing their 'perfect' whatever with a diaper.

 

Cars are meant to be driven.  If changing something as simple as the intake pipes makes the car more enjoyable to drive?

 

A friend of mine once said,"Don't yuck another man's yum."  Honest words I've tried to live by since...

[Conserv]

21 minutes ago, tomphot said:

Nope, there wasn’t wire continuity in the big block thing.  I drilled out the rubber and made everything look like it was wired up. 

 

Uhhh... I’m so disappointed that neither of your diagnostic plugs will work on the machine that no longer exists! ?

 

I will add the valve cover diagnostic port to my tii as we complete the engine rebuild. I’m happy to know, however, that you’ve set the bar fairly low for my installation! ?

 

Let’s all swear today that we will never again bring up the... “functionality” issue! ?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Conserv]

14 minutes ago, irdave said:

 

Honestly, I disagree.  If you have all the stock plastic parts in a box and have the aluminum bits on there when you go to sell it, and you say it runs more reliably this way, but here's all the stock parts so you can put it back... In no way does that diminish the value of the car.  If you're really just changing the pipes and not the head and pump (and CR) as Ted suggested, it's what?  A couple hours?

 

I would offer that any 'serious tii nut' that gets butt hurt about that should go back to rubbing their 'perfect' whatever with a diaper.

 

Cars are meant to be driven.  If changing something as simple as the intake pipes makes the car more enjoyable to drive?

 

A friend of mine once said,"Don't yuck another man's yum."  Honest words I've tried to live by since...

Dave,

 

This thread suggests to me that we have taken a mere nuisance and inadvertently turned it into a full-blown crisis.

 

The plastic intake runners are not some backyard garage project that occasionally work. They work! Many ‘02’s today run their original plastic intake runners. They simply had a failure rare greater than anticipated by BMW Engineering and greater than typical buyers of a brand new tii, ca. 1972, were happy with. Anyone who owns and drives a 50-year-old car will find no untoward surprises coming from plastic intake runners. Over time, you will replace more guibo’s than plastic intake runners!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Golfcar]

And the original question was???

 

How to restore the plastic intake runners. 

 

Plastic can easily be polished back to it's original finish an number of ways. 

If you start off too course it will be harder and take a lot of time. 

Use some 0000 steel wool dipped in mineral spirits to help flush away the dirt and bring the plastic back. 

White rubbing compound and a good bit of labor will get them back to their satin black look. Too much polishing and they will get very shiny. 

I'll help you Tom, since were neighbors. 

I have restored some plastic pieces on my E9 this way. 

Gary 

[Einspritz]

Today's Orange parts book discoveries find a few things:

 

As Steve noted, plastic runners for Euro engines went up from VIN 2710776 (LHD) and 2750863 (RHD) with USA models from 2761944 to 2762014 respectively. Only 70 USA units? Hmmmm. If so, then ya gots a rarity.

 

Metal runners on Euro models up to 2710776 (LHD) and 2750863 (RHD) with USA models from 2761944 to 2762014 and a further change at 2762372 which I believe corresponds to a plenum part number change, perhaps due to the later smog equipped engines. Some have additional vacuum ports, IIRC.

 

The pump succession is interesting.

 

Euro pumps in the parts book do not have a VIN correlation, but their are three successions, from 13 51 259 882 to 13 51 0 739 877 to 13 51 1 259 887 prior to then correlating with the USA models with a succession from 13 51 1 256 537 to 13 51 0 739 875 to 13 51 1 256 536. Note that the USA Modell 74 also had the 13 51 1 259 535 pump exclusively. So, the early Euro pumps had something different from the USA pumps.

 

So, the next question is what is the difference between those pump numbers?

 

Internal cam?

Warm up regulator?

Linkages?

 

Heads and pistons:

 

From Mike Macartney's book, states that the 121 and 121Ti heads were were used up to September 1972 being superseded by the E12 head onward, and the raised bathtub pistons were used on the early 121 variants with compression ratios between 9:1 and 10:1, while late variants of the Tii with the E12 head using 8.1:1 to a maximum of 9.5:1. Macartney does not specify USA models, but that is understood since he is/was located in the UK.

 

Historically speaking, and from direct experience, the fuel composition was changing at the time as Lead (and Octane rating) was being drastically reduced and compression ratios were thus reduced to deal with detonation in higher compression ratio engines. And too, SMOG controls were being introduced, where California led the way.

 

My opinion today is that the late Tiis had a fuel cam to accommodate the above; subject to change without notice.

 

That's all for today, the weeds in the yard are taunting me.

[Einspritz]

OK. I don't know how, but can we move this to a new thread?

[irdave]

7 hours ago, Conserv said:

Dave,

 

This thread suggests to me that we have taken a mere nuisance and inadvertently turned it into a full-blown crisis.

 

The plastic intake runners are not some backyard garage project that occasionally work. They work! Many ‘02’s today run their original plastic intake runners. They simply had a failure rare greater than anticipated by BMW Engineering and greater than typical buyers of a brand new tii, ca. 1972, were happy with. Anyone who owns and drives a 50-year-old car will find no untoward surprises coming from plastic intake runners. Over time, you will replace more guibo’s than plastic intake runners!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Oh yeah, sure Steve.  2761023 much preferred the plastic pipes to anything else I tried.  I think they're a fine solution (until someone mentioned carbon!)  Figuring out how to get them installed and not leaking was all part of the process.  I was just trying to point out that if someone wanted something a little different that made their life easier...  I mean, it's their car.

 

:big kiss emoji