IE street/track headers barely clearing idler arm - advice?

[Wah]

Hey all...  first post in the main forum.  Picked up a '74 2002 in October and absolutely loving it.  After getting a bunch of work done on it over a couple of days,  we went to install a new ceramic coated IE street/track header, only to find during test fitting that the idler arm barely clears the bottom two tubes.  With the center link back in place, the nut touches them.  I've read that this happens occasionally, and that heating them and banging them out with a BFH is one method to clear the arm, but I'm afraid I will ruin the ceramic coating on my header.  I wasn't able to get in touch with IE (I guess they are closed for the weekend).  Any advice on how to proceed?  I'm so disappointed that after all the work we did without any issues, we were stopped right as we were finishing up...  we were so close! 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Wah

[AceAndrew]

Passenger side motor mount:

a) Is the stopping plate in place?  This doubles as a shim.  If it is or isn't you can always shim it a little more (getting creative to make said shims).

b) Is the sheetmetal it sits on caved in a bit? With age I've seen some of these start to sag a bit.  Fixing this means welding some supports, so that fix is a much larger commitment.

 

Not saying either of these will completely fix your issue.... but they are things you have power to control at the moment. 

[TobyB]

So, yeah, what Andrew's saying is...  he's not shocked.

 

Neither am I.

 

Other things try, after making sure the engine is up as far as it should be:

Loosen the flange nuts very slightly, and put a solid lift on it.

Like, gently, with a jack.

The holes have some slop- it might be enough to help.

The holes can also be ovalized a bit in critical spots.  It takes 

very little rotation around the flange axis to give you the 1/2"

or so that you want.

 

Headers on a car with floppy engine mounts are always going to

be a challenge- pretty hard urethane is kinda required, as there's

not a ton of room in there.  And the mounts aren't dimensionally 

exact, either.

 

hth,

 

t

 

[Wah]

Thanks for the replies.  I think we'll try a combination of shimming and maybe putting dents in right spots of the tubes.  I'll talk to the mechanic about checking the position of the engine and moving it as much as reasonably possible.  I'm sure we can make enough room to clear the arm, but my concern is how much the engine and the header move around during acceleration.  I'm not too sure what minimum clearance I will need to prevent contact during driving. 

 

What is the "stopping plate"?  I need to check that but I'm not sure which part that is. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Wah

['76mintgrün'02]

44 minutes ago, Wah said:

What is the "stopping plate"? 

 

I suspect he is referring to the stop shown in the third photo down, with the gap "A".

It is installed under the mount, which raises it a bit and it keeps the engine from moving forward to keep the fan from kissing the radiator.

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by '76mintgrün'02

[tme]

In addition to what Adam and Toby said - good (not collapsed) motor mount, stopping plate,  good subframe mount, header flange rotated on the exhaust studs.  Do you have the transmission exhaust support mounted?  It may help with the clearance.  Best to have it in place before any welding of flange adapters.  

[irdave]

43 minutes ago, tme said:

Revel in the beauty that is the cleanest underside of a 2002 that you've ever witnessed!

 

 

[tme]

No doubt and unfortunately not mine.  If I somehow managed to get mine that clean it wouldn’t even last to the end of my driveway before it was covered with oil, gear lube, antifreeze and dirt.  And I have less than 600 miles on my rebuild ?.

[irdave]

5 minutes ago, tme said:

No doubt and unfortunately not mine.  If I somehow managed to get mine that clean it wouldn’t even last to the end of my driveway before it was covered with oil, gear lube, antifreeze and dirt.  And I have less than 600 miles on my rebuild ?.

 

You and me both.  I drive my car too much to spend the time required to keep it that clean.

[AustrianVespaGuy]

I actually had this problem with my Supersprint headers, so I promise you're not alone!  I first tried dimpling them in the right spot (just squoze it in a vice a bit to oval out that area) which gained me enough clearance to get it to 'fit,' but it still banged around a bit during certain situations/loads.  I then put in either a 1/8" or 3/16" shim on top of the engine mount and that REALLY fixed things.  Now zero problems! So good luck with it, but I'm confident you won't let this stop you now!

[Wah]

26 minutes ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

I actually had this problem with my Supersprint headers, so I promise you're not alone!  I first tried dimpling them in the right spot (just squoze it in a vice a bit to oval out that area) which gained me enough clearance to get it to 'fit,' but it still banged around a bit during certain situations/loads.  I then put in either a 1/8" or 3/16" shim on top of the engine mount and that REALLY fixed things.  Now zero problems! So good luck with it, but I'm confident you won't let this stop you now!

 How much clearance do you have now between the header and the nut? 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Wah

[ray_]

2 hours ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

I actually had this problem with my Supersprint headers, so I promise you're not alone!  I first tried dimpling them in the right spot (just squoze it in a vise a bit to oval out that area) which gained me enough clearance to get it to 'fit,' but it still banged around a bit during certain situations/loads.  I then put in either a 1/8" or 3/16" shim on top of the engine mount and that REALLY fixed things.  Now zero problems! So good luck with it, but I'm confident you won't let this stop you now!

 

[AustrianVespaGuy]

Thanks @ray_, and sorry! Also squoze probably isn't a real word either, but oh well. . . ?

3 hours ago, Wah said:

How much clearance do you have now between the header and the nut?

Finally found the picture for you! A little over 1/4" clearance now I'd estimate, though the SS geometry is still a bit different than your IE setup, so will need to 'season to taste' as they say.

[ray_]

Ah, but it is a word!

[Lorin]

I like laying a large-ish socket that I’m not particularly fond of across the offending pipe and apply force with a mini sledge. If the back of the pipe can be supported on something soft like a foam rubber work mat, the pipe will stay mostly round except for the depression that the socket leaves. 
 

This method leaves the pipe looking pretty factory and not like you smashed on it with a hammer 20 times.