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2000 ti suspension


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I'm neue to the Neue Klasse and am wondering about suspension components and possible compatibility with 1600s and 2002s. Are strut inserts/shocks/springs interchangeable between those chassis? May I use 2002 components on my '67 Tilux?  I've read that e9 rear sway bars can be used, but what about the fronts? And then there are the suspension bushings which are 53 years old as well as the strut bearings which look different than e10/e3/e9. Any input here would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

JVO

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12 hours ago, djminkin said:

Totally different cars. Not too many 2002 parts work for NK. If I remember correctly no suspension is different 

 

Thanks

 

Edited by JimVO
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  • Alpina

I’m running complete 02 struts and brakes on my 67 1800
only way that it’ll work is that you use your complete 2002 assembly with strut bearings as well as they’re different as well! Good affordable early struts bearings are almost impossible to find! 

 

------------------------------------------------------

http://www.instagram.com/mojojoy

1968 BMW 2002 (Bristol/Granada)

1969 BMW 2000 NK (Florida)

1971 BMW 2000tii Touring Malaga (Restoring)

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The front subframe and control arms are the same, so the control arm bushes are the same. Struts different with bigger brakes, but replacement shocks and stuts bearings are available.

 

Rear end is completely different to the 02 unless you share the long neck dif, which you 'probably' have as it ssitched to the side loader diff around 68. Specific rear shocks also available.

 

why look for alternatives? just buy oem, it's out there. and your tilux should have come with anti roll bars from new?

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Thank you, Nick. As I noted in the registration discussion, I have known this car for ten years but have not yet taken possession. I've owned many 02 cars over the years but this is the first Neue Klasse and I'm trying to flatten the learning curve in the weeks before I have it in my garage.

 

Jim

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2 hours ago, JimVO said:

Thank you, Nick. As I noted in the registration discussion, I have known this car for ten years but have not yet taken possession. I've owned many 02 cars over the years but this is the first Neue Klasse and I'm trying to flatten the learning curve in the weeks before I have it in my garage.

 

Jim

 

good luck Jim, you'll love it, they're great cars

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just saw this thread and wanted to comment.

Nick mentioned that the control arms and subframes are the same. This is incorrect as the 02 subframe will move the power plant roughly 3'' rearward. Nice mod for a race car, I did this in the mid 80's...The suspension pick up points are in the same place though and control arms and tension rods are the same. 2002 bearings are very small.  Tii struts will work and give larger bearings and can be outfitted with the vented rotors from a 320 and the Big 6 cyl. 4 pot calipers (single or twin circuit). They are still smaller in diameter though than the later 4 door cars. That's what I used when my car became a road race car. The best mod for a street car in my opinion is late 2000 sedan struts with the larger diameter springs, 69' and later I think. They used the early 5 series strut bearings and 5 bolt hubs will fit on them with ventilated brakes. Use Bavaria 14x6 wheels and stock 2000 hub caps! Couple that with the 3.0 CSi rear end and get 4 wheel vented brakes and the side loader diff that is absolutely bullet proof. Not many people would recognize that mod. It will require a spring perch relocate unless your car is 69' or later as well. Coupe shocks are required too.

Recently I have seen people comment that the long neck diff was stout? My experience with the long neck dates back to the mid 60's. My father had a stack of them that hand grenaded regularly even spitting ring gear bolts through the rear cover! His car was a 64'

TI.

The rear subframes and trailing arms do not interchange with an 02 no matter what diff you have.The 4 door cars are wider and share dimensions with the coupes from the A pillar rearward.

 

Just my 02 cents worth...

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Hi Darrel - just so you know the late model cars, post 68 ish, used a 2002 subframe with different engine mounts to keep the engine in the original spot further forward. This also cured the drivers side weak engine mount. I've got a complete e9 coupe rear end in mine, but with the solid disks (vented are really not needed on such a light car at the rear).

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Hey Nick

As all the 4 cyl cars used the same front end running gear the subframes look remarkably similar-except for the engine mounting points. I still maintain that the subframes are not interchangable unless you want to modify the transmission tunnel and firewall. 3+'' rearward relocation of all that mass does improve the handling of the car dramatically.

Before my TI became a dedicated track car I did many crazy mods to the suspension and brakes. Using the late 2000 struts allowed me to run 2 sets of 4 piston single circuit calipers on each front wheel with the ventilated rotors. Incredible overkill, not necessary for such a light car and actually tilted the unsprung weight ratio in a negative manner. I never met anyone else who did it though so for a while it was pretty unique.

The coupe rear end is a fantastic mod and I agree that the car does not require ventilated rear brakes but the novelty of a early 60's 4dr sedan with 4 wheel vented brakes tickles my sensibilities.

Here's a photo of the car at Sears Point Raceway during a Club race and a photo of the beater 02 during an autocross.

1800 TI at sears point club race.jpg

20140426-ax-2002.jpg

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I understand the engine position is different between the 02 and the NK, but I can assure you BMW used the same subframe from 68 ish onwards. The mount between engine and subframe is different, which mounts the NK engine further forward. I'm doing this at the moment as the later 02 idle arm and subframe are a lot less bulky than the earlier NK adjustable version, which I need to clear a 4-2-1 tubular manifold.

 

The drivers side late style engine mount/bracket is still available new for only a few euros, but I had to lean on an NK friend in Holland for the later style passenger mount. Should be in the post any day now.

 

George in Crete did a similar brake set-up on his M2, adapting a 7 series strut.

 

Image008.jpg

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  • Alpina

@Darrel do you remember what you used as far as front brakes when you used the late 2000 struts? I have a set that want to install on my 2002 while keeping 4 lugs but with vented brakes. So how can one upgrade braking system on a late nk strut! Which caliper/vented disk to chose from? 

------------------------------------------------------

http://www.instagram.com/mojojoy

1968 BMW 2002 (Bristol/Granada)

1969 BMW 2000 NK (Florida)

1971 BMW 2000tii Touring Malaga (Restoring)

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This is an interesting discussion and I’m intrigued by the CS rear suspension swap. My initial inquiry was essentially to determine if shortened & stiffer 2002 springs and B’stein HD shocks from same we’re compatible. From MOJOJOY’s comment I’m assuming I can use the complete 02 strut & top bearing. If using tii struts I’d then gain larger wheel bearings and rotors as well as easily available strut bearings. I’ll have the car in ten days or so and can assess its needs....or possibly my wants.

Thanks for this input.

Jim

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2 hours ago, Darrel said:

Hey Nick

As all the 4 cyl cars used the same front end running gear the subframes look remarkably similar-except for the engine mounting points. I still maintain that the subframes are not interchangable unless you want to modify the transmission tunnel and firewall. 3+'' rearward relocation of all that mass does improve the handling of the car dramatically.

 

The ‘69 and later NKs did Start using the same front subframe as the ‘02s, BUT with motor mount brackets that kept the motor in the forward NK position. I have a few sets of these brackets and the deWitt’s TI/SA has a set installed. The mounts themselves are the same as the ‘02.

 

Wolfgang Freihofner has two pair of two piston calipers on his 1600. He and Peter Herke used that setup on a few of their race cars. The only other cars but yours that I’ve heard of using that type of setup.

 

Here’s a couple of photos I took of Darrel’s old 1800TI race car at a Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA autocross event in the late eighties. It and Darrel were absolutely the fastest things out there in those days.

4FD9FB19-8774-454E-BDD9-40EE4B9468BE.jpeg

078965D7-234E-4834-965C-0CCF98BF4752.jpeg

E6489440-0782-43CA-BBC3-634C4C44031F.jpeg

B4569803-5544-458D-9BE2-B7E66728FFB3.jpeg

EFDD3570-CA16-43B6-921B-7F7831EC62CA.jpeg

51421209-D210-4260-8DF4-8A830F3D9086.jpeg

69A8175C-B70D-4E86-8AF4-864D442664CF.jpeg

B5EE2678-D722-4A9A-9282-E6C1FF9AE833.jpeg

3DD487CB-F3E2-40DB-A31C-DCB924985281.jpeg

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Tom Jones

BMW mechanic for over 25 years, BMWCCA since 1984
66 BMW16oo stored, 67 1600-2 lifelong project, 2 more 67-8 1600s, 86 528e 5sp 585k, 91 318i
Mom&Dad's, 65 1800TiSA, 70 2800, 72 2002Tii 2760007 orig owners, 15 Z4 N20

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