Cheaper 5 lug hub for tii struts - E24!

[02TurboMI]

I was doodling around on RealOEM and found that the E24 633csi uses the same wheel bearings as the tii. To my delight, BavAuto caries this hub for $70! 

Any reason why this wouldn’t work on a tii strut?

 

RealOEM tii:  http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=2583-USA-08_1971_114_BMW_2002tii&diagId=31_0437#31212634106

 

RealOEM E24:  http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=5236-USA-07_1981_E24_BMW_633CSi&diagId=31_0165#31211123434

 

 

BavAuto:  https://www.bavauto.com/bmw-wheel-bearing-561935aea

[Simeon]

The hub located the brake disk which then needs to run centered in the brake caliper. You may need to change one or both of the brake disk and caliper to make it work. That might be advantageous if you get a brake upgrade but the calipers then have to fit the hole centres on the strut housing. 

[TobyB]

Also, the bearings need to be (approximately) the same distance apart.

 

Not saying they are NOT, just that they Might not be.

 

fwiw

 

t

[02TurboMI]

Yeah I might buy one of each and compare. Could make for a good substitute for the E12 hubs.

[TobyB]

If it encourages you, the 633 calipers are a bolt- on to the tii struts, and they fit perfectly over the E21 brake

rotor.  So your odds aren't bad that it'd work-  BMW only changed a dimension when they had to, back then...

 

t

who'd grab one in the junkyard... err, nope, that was 15 years ago!

[Simeon]

So now you have 5 lug front hubs but what about the rear?  

 

Last time we discussed this it looked like swapping in the whole rear subframe from an e30 was the best way to address (plus get disk brakes). 

 

Whatever you save on the front hubs you spend on the rear. 

[02TurboMI]

17 minutes ago, Simeon said:

So now you have 5 lug front hubs but what about the rear?  

 

Last time we discussed this it looked like swapping in the whole rear subframe from an e30 was the best way to address (plus get disk brakes). 

 

Whatever you save on the front hubs you spend on the rear. 

 

Still working that out haha - fill and redrill hubs and convert to disc?

[Son of Marty]

The hub from Bav you have listed is for a later car using the sealed bearing system and if I recall correctly uses a straight spindle and wouldn't fit  Tii spindle. I don't know if Bav is wrong or just showing a generic hub, your original research on the Tii  and e24 hubs is spot on.

[camperman]

I was under the impression that pre '81/82 E24s were based on the E12 platform so would assume the struts and hubs etc are the same. After '82 they underwent significant changes as they were then based on the E28 platform, very few of the parts are interchangeable from early to late E24s AFAIK.

[albatcha]

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part?id=3991-USA-07-1979-E12-BMW-528i&mg=31&sg=10&diagId=31_0162&q=31211123434

 

Iit seems that the e12, e23, and e24 all use this same hub.

 

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part?id=5236-USA---E24-BMW-633CSi&mg=31&sg=10&diagId=31_0175&q=31211131298

 

And the e28 and e24 share this hub after the switch from being e12 to e28 based

 

The matching bearing is used on the early e12 based car's hub

 

And I think Son of Marty is right that the spindles are different on the early vs late cars, so I would guess it wouldn't work.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by albatcha

[TobyB]

16 hours ago, Simeon said:

So now you have 5 lug front hubs but what about the rear?  

 

Last time we discussed this it looked like swapping in the whole rear subframe from an e30 was the best way to address (plus get disk brakes). 

 

Whatever you save on the front hubs you spend on the rear. 

...and then get ti trailing arms, as the E30 is also, sensibly, 4 on 100.

 

heh

 

and yes, it would need to be early, E12 style open hubs- only the early 633's had the ti pattern calipers.

 

t

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by TobyB

[02TurboMI]

Alright gang, I'll list some conclusions that we all came to.

 

SCOPE: This thread's purpose was to showcase a common 5-lug hub that would work on tii struts that was affordable.

 

CONCLUSIONS:

• Usable hubs: E12, pre-1982 E24 (633csi)
• Upon initial investigation, I believed the E24 hub to be available for ~$70 from BavAuto. This was determined to be accurate, but only for the post-1982, sealed hubs that will not work on tii struts. Looking further into it, the pre-1982 633csi hubs are not cheap (>$350 new), similar to the E12 hubs.
• Bonus info:  Pre-1982 633csi hubs, calipers, and rotors (280mm) should bolt directly to tii struts (Toby - can you confirm if 633csi rotors will also work?) - so if you've got yourself a scrap 633csi, you can make a nice front, 5-lug BBK

[LarsAlpina]

4 hours ago, mmbingo said:

 

• Bonus info:  Pre-1982 633csi hubs, calipers, and rotors (280mm) should bolt directly to tii struts (Toby - can you confirm if 633csi rotors will also work?) - so if you've got yourself a scrap 633csi, you can make a nice front, 5-lug BBK

 

I'm not Toby.

 

But: 1. Concerning the calipers there was a change during E12 production (somewhen 1977 or 1978 for EURO cars if I still remember right). With the early ones the caliper halves are the same as tii, turbo, NK, E3, E9 and do use thinner brake pads. You can recognize these calipers from screws and nuts used to bolt them together.

Later caliper halves came with slightly different casting. They use thicker brake pads and there are no nuts anymore (thread directly machined into the one caliper half). Those can still be mounted on a tii strut, but you will get into probs with some of the standard 02 rims. They won't fit anymore without using spacers.

 

2. Never tried those 280mm brake discs on a tii strut myself, but it's quite possible they might fit separately. But then you can no longer put the calipers on, as their position relative to the brake disc is wrong.

 

Best regards, Lars.

[TobyB]

12 hours ago, mmbingo said:

Alright gang, I'll list some conclusions that we all came ...

• Bonus info:  Pre-1982 633csi hubs, calipers, and rotors (280mm) should bolt directly to tii struts (Toby - can you confirm if 633csi rotors will also work?) - so if you've got yourself a scrap 633csi, you can make a nice front, 5-lug BBK

Neup- all I know is that the calipers work.  You then use an early 320 hub, and a 1977 e21 rotor.  The early hub might

be the same, but I never tried it.  And I never tried the rotor.  But again, BMW never changed

a dimension they didn't have to...

 

In the US, I THINK there are 2 633 calipers that work on the tii struts.  One has dual brake circuits (earlier)

and one has only one circuit (mid- range) but is a 2- part 4- pot,

and then there is a later generation that has floating calipers.

 

Keep in mind that I last did anything with this stuff more than a decade ago, so I may not be... correct...

 

t

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by TobyB