Bavaria control arms questions

[Johnny Riviera]

Hello all,

 

I looking to improve cornering at autocross and I want to add camber to my car and am thinking of the Bavaria arm swap. I am thinking going this way instead of adjustable camber plates because I like my ride height and spring firmness, and it is my understanding that adjustable plates will raise the car slightly, and if I cut the springs to bring it back down it will make it stiffer. 

I currently have the fixed camber plates. 

 

My my questions are, how badly do the Bavaria arms make the car follow grooves in the road? (Trammlining?)

 

And how much worse is tire wear under normal driving?

 

The car is a sunny day driver, and sees 1-2 Auto-x a month during the nicer months

 

Thanks,

 

John

[02tradition]

Just because it can be done doesn’t mean it should. I would argue against this. 

 

Camber plates are mucho better. 

 

My .02¢

[John_in_VA]

4 hours ago, Johnny Riviera said:

My questions are, how badly do the Bavaria arms make the car follow grooves in the road? (Trammlining?)

 

Tires have the most direct influence on tramlining.

[Johnny Riviera]

Gotcha. I guess my question was more along the lines of how much the increased camber affects the tramlining? i.e. how much camber makes the car dart-y?

[Flunder]

How much negative camber would there be

neg camber plates alone

 Bav arms alone

plates and arms total 

[Einspritz]

Tramlining will also be affected by the width of the rim and tire as well as how soft the tires are.

 

[Einspritz]

Also forgot, what is your toe setting?

[Johnny Riviera]

Unsure of toe at this time. It doesn’t follow grooves now, I just worry about dialing in too much camber and having to fight the pavement. 

 

Fixed IE plates are adding 5/8 degree

 

i think the Bavaria arms give you 2 degrees

 

Currently running the IE fixed plates, BavAuto springs, Billy sports, IE bars, 13x6’s with Federal 205/60’s. Hoping to get a second set of 13x6’s for a set of

Toyo RA-1’s

[Mike G]

IE can bend struts to add camber. Maybe have them add 1 degree and try it without your plates. If it’s not enough put the plates back in. 

[Einspritz]

OK. So then this is really a philosophical question as to what is it that you "want" as opposed to what you need to suit your objective.

 

 I wrote a long winded tome about my suspension experiences, but tabled it. After thought, I would recommend that a good place to start is to spend the money for Harry's Lap Timer ($40?) for your phone or tablet, learn how to use the graphing functions and do a little bit of casual data collection to KNOW some of your cars capabilities before you make changes, In that way, you KNOW the benefit (or not) of each change you try, regardless of cost.

[jgerock]

I recall reading a great series of articles by Jim Rowe of Metric Mechanic in the older Roundel magazines on their autoX/race car that used the Bavaria front control arms.   

[jgerock]

Think this is the article.  I scanned it for future use.  From the February 1990 issue

 

 

[Johnny Riviera]

Thanks for all the great info and suggestions! I will read the article tonight. The "want/need" is a great question. I guess what I'm trying to do is lessen the understeer when I push hard. In Auto-x I rear lose the rear, but often push the front. I've tried tightening up the rear bar with little effect. Staggering air pressure front to rear helps. I know these cars lack proper camber, especially when lowered a little. My thought is if I can keep more rubber on the ground during cornering it would help.

[SteveJ]

At a car control clinic, 1988 IIRC, Steve Dinan suggested this for my flared 02. Stopped by the wrecking yard on the way home and got a set.

 

3 degrees. 

Noticable on autocross and track. Street feel was fine, especially if you drive the same way. Tire wear on the inside edges is balanced by the outside edges during competition.

 

Best part was people seeing the negative camber and trying to figure out how it was done without camber plates.

 

Arms bolt right up. Get the longer drag links with the arms. Those take a little umph to get in place.

[Johnny Riviera]

It sounds like I need to ask another question. Are flared fenders necessary?