How many '74 Turkis Tiis ?

[Rich Elliott]

Does anyone know how many '74 Turkis Tiis were imported?

 

My friend, Greg, just inherited one from his brother, who lived in Renton.

 

Since Turkis was a rare color and Tiis are even more rare, I would think that there were not that many Turkis Tiis imported in 1974.  But, I'm finding more and more as I look around.

 

So far, I know of three:

1) Andy:

2) This one selling for $56k: (No affiliation)

 https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/2002/1974-bmw-2002-tii-sedan/4765817#

 

3) My friend, Greg, just inherited this one...

[Conserv]

No one knows. Sorry. But it is a rare and beautiful color!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[Conserv]

There is a good thread — maybe more than one — on Turkis. I believe the last paint and upholstery brochure in which Turkis appeared was September 1973, essentially the initial color palette for the square taillight ‘02. But the color was absent from the February 1974 version of the paint and upholstery brochure. So 1974 is the final year of Turkis.

 

Despite the color not being represented in the February 1974 brochure, the factory may have been using up Turkis paint inventory. If I recall from one of the threads, there was a spate of Turkis ‘02’s, some tii’s, in April 1974. And then, I believe, there were none! 

 

Find that thread!

 

By the by, the default factory interior color for Turkis cars was gray. But, for some reason lost to us today, gray interiors were extremely rare on U.S.-imported ‘02’s. Instead, Hoffman Motors ordered, or BMW AG simply delivered, black interiors on most Turkis U.S. cars. So, at least in my book, a Turkis tii with a gray factory interior would be one of the rarest factory combinations!

 

Below, in the first photograph, is the color concordance from the September 1973 paint and upholstery brochure. The second photo shows a color sample for Turkis. And thevtt is that (second photo) are the S0004 (cloth and vinyl) and K0008 (all vinyl) gray interiors the factory established as default combinations.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Edited September 18, 2018 by Conserv

[Rich Elliott]

Thanks Conserv!  Awesome information here!  I'm gonna see the car in person in early December.  I'll take a closer look at the interior.  My friend is having trouble getting the car to start, so we are going to see what we can do to start it.  If we can't get it to start, we may need to trailer it down from Renton to Portland.

[Conserv]

Greg’s new car, VIN 2780905, is a December 1973 or January 1974 car (see Original Owner’s post and my response below). You can obtain the precise build date by simply emailing BMW Archives, providing the VIN, and requesting their data on the car (info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com).

 

Greg’s has a black interior, which is the norm for U.S. Turkis cars.

 

It looks like a solid car!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Conserv

[Glen Karr]

46 minutes ago, Rich Elliott said:

My friend is having trouble getting the car to start, so we are going to see what we can do to start it.  If we can't get it to start, we may need to trailer it down from Renton to Portland

Rich,

I would recommend your friend following Rob Siegel's (the Hack Mechanic) post about returning a sitting Tii  to running condition.  Mine sat for ten years and I followed Robs recommendations and got it running smoothly after a few long hours of work and a few $$$.

Best of luck,

Glen

To save you some searching I've inserted Rob's recommendations:

• Pull the pickup tube from the gas tank.
• If, as soon as you open the tank up, it smells like varnish, you already know that you're going to need to systematically clean everything -- at a bare minimum, you'll need to drain the old gas and blow out all the lines.
• Inspect the screen at the base of the pickup tube.
• Verify that both the outflow and return lines on the pickup tube aren't clogged (I've just seen three tiis with this problem). Ream then out with a coathanger and compressed air.
• Shine a flashlight in the gas tank and make sure it's not full of rust or sediment. I've seen them look like pot roast. If it's bad, pull the gas tank and clean it. At a minimum, pressure wash it, dry it, put it back in, and refill it with five gallons of clean gas.
• Pull the fuel pump and inspect the conical screen at the inlet. It may be clogged or completely missing. 
• If the fuel filter inlet screen is missing, tap the inlet side out onto a paper towel. If rust and sediment come out, I'd recommend you replace the fuel pump.
• Disconnect the fuel filter to the left side of the radiator.
• With the fuel pump and fuel filter disconnected, blow the main fuel line out with compressed air into a bottle to catch what comes out. Inspect it. If there's massive amount of rust, blow brake cleaner into it and repeat until the rust is no longer visible when blown into a clean rag.
• Undo the return line from the back of the Kugelfisher pump.
• Do the same blowing out of the return line.
• Remove the pressure valve from the back of the Kugelfisher pump and visually inspect it, looking through it against a bright light. There should be a pinhole of light visible. If there's not, clean it with brake cleaner until there is.
• Pull the banjo bolt out of the front of the Kugelfisher pump and inspect the barrel-shaped screen inside it. I've spent hours removing and cleaning them.
• As said above, if the fuel smells like varnish, you really should blow out the plastic injection lines with compressed air, and pull the injectors and have them cleaned and tested.
• Reassemble everything, preferably replacing every fuel hose -- or at least every fuel hose that is too soft or rock-hard -- with OEM.
• Put a fuel pressure gauge just before the Kugelfisher pump. Turn on the ignition to run the fuel pump. It should read 29psi. 
• Inspect every part of the fuel delivery system for leaks.
• Try to start the car. Look in the throttle body at the cold start injector. If no fuel is being squirted, you'll have to troubleshoot the thermo time switch, or simply wire the cold start injector temporarily to the battery, or semi-permanently via a switch.
• Start the car. Inspect the plastic injection lines carefully for leaks, both at the base of the lines at the Kugelfisher pump as well as in the lines themselves (they do crack with age). 
• Look in the throttle body at the cold start injector to make sure it's not leaking.

[Mark92131]

This 74 Tii shell showed up on Craigslist, looks like it could be originally Tiaga (although looks like Mintgrun in the photo), another rare green paint color for a 1974 Tii.

 

Mark92131

 

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/d/bmw-2002-tii-shell-title/6698493695.html

 

 

[Conserv]

37 minutes ago, Mark92131 said:

This 74 Tii shell showed up on Craigslist, looks like it could be originally Tiaga (although looks like Mintgrun in the photo), another rare green paint color for a 1974 Tii.

 

Mark92131

 

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/d/bmw-2002-tii-shell-title/6698493695.html

 

 

 

Yep, Mark, the dash looks more Mintgrun but the insides of the doors look more like Taiga metallic....

 

But many of the original colors, where they have not received at least two complete coats — undersides, interiors, etc. — take on different appearances. I’m not yet ready to take a stand on this one!

 

Unrelated, $2,500 sounds like an ambitious ask!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Conserv

[Rich Elliott]

4 hours ago, Glen Karr said:

Rich,

I would recommend your friend following Rob Siegel's (the Hack Mechanic) post about returning a sitting Tii  to running condition.  Mine sat for ten years and I followed Robs recommendations and got it running smoothly after a few long hours of work and a few $$$.

Best of luck,

Glen

To save you some searching I've inserted Rob's recommendations:

• Pull the pickup tube from the gas tank.
• If, as soon as you open the tank up, it smells like varnish, you already know that you're going to need to systematically clean everything -- at a bare minimum, you'll need to drain the old gas and blow out all the lines.
• Inspect the screen at the base of the pickup tube.
• Verify that both the outflow and return lines on the pickup tube aren't clogged (I've just seen three tiis with this problem). Ream then out with a coathanger and compressed air.
• Shine a flashlight in the gas tank and make sure it's not full of rust or sediment. I've seen them look like pot roast. If it's bad, pull the gas tank and clean it. At a minimum, pressure wash it, dry it, put it back in, and refill it with five gallons of clean gas.
• Pull the fuel pump and inspect the conical screen at the inlet. It may be clogged or completely missing. 
• If the fuel filter inlet screen is missing, tap the inlet side out onto a paper towel. If rust and sediment come out, I'd recommend you replace the fuel pump.
• Disconnect the fuel filter to the left side of the radiator.
• With the fuel pump and fuel filter disconnected, blow the main fuel line out with compressed air into a bottle to catch what comes out. Inspect it. If there's massive amount of rust, blow brake cleaner into it and repeat until the rust is no longer visible when blown into a clean rag.
• Undo the return line from the back of the Kugelfisher pump.
• Do the same blowing out of the return line.
• Remove the pressure valve from the back of the Kugelfisher pump and visually inspect it, looking through it against a bright light. There should be a pinhole of light visible. If there's not, clean it with brake cleaner until there is.
• Pull the banjo bolt out of the front of the Kugelfisher pump and inspect the barrel-shaped screen inside it. I've spent hours removing and cleaning them.
• As said above, if the fuel smells like varnish, you really should blow out the plastic injection lines with compressed air, and pull the injectors and have them cleaned and tested.
• Reassemble everything, preferably replacing every fuel hose -- or at least every fuel hose that is too soft or rock-hard -- with OEM.
• Put a fuel pressure gauge just before the Kugelfisher pump. Turn on the ignition to run the fuel pump. It should read 29psi. 
• Inspect every part of the fuel delivery system for leaks.
• Try to start the car. Look in the throttle body at the cold start injector. If no fuel is being squirted, you'll have to troubleshoot the thermo time switch, or simply wire the cold start injector temporarily to the battery, or semi-permanently via a switch.
• Start the car. Inspect the plastic injection lines carefully for leaks, both at the base of the lines at the Kugelfisher pump as well as in the lines themselves (they do crack with age). 
• Look in the throttle body at the cold start injector to make sure it's not leaking.

Super Awesome. Thanks Glen!

[Andy74tii]

I've always thought it was a rare color for 74 tiis, in fact I think I've seen it written down somewhere, but don't recall. Mine is  2780675, just a bit older than the one you showed. Mine has a build date in  December '73.

[OriginalOwner]

Conserv,

 

we have a VIN problem ......

    per REALOEM:   2780950   is  DEC 1973 ...... no way it can be JAN 1975 !!  Is your post above a typo ??  I think so !!

 

I bring this up because I am 2782426, and I am July 1974.

 

and Andy74tii above is DEC 1973.

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

 

 

[Conserv]

10 hours ago, OriginalOwner said:

Conserv,

 

we have a VIN problem ......

    per REALOEM:   2780950   is  DEC 1973 ...... no way it can be JAN 1975 !!  Is your post above a typo ??  I think so !!

 

 

Yes, Carl, that’s a typo. Thank you. Corrected!

 

U.S. tii production ended in December 1974, in order that BMW would not have to conform the tii to new emissions standards that went into effect on January 1, 1975.

 

That said, we have dueling VIN decoders with respect to VIN 2780905. The BMW 2002 Club of Columbia provides a January 1974 date while RealOEM.com provides a December 1973 date. The BMW 2002 Club of Columbia believes 2780794 was the last U.S. tii manufactured in 1973 and 2780795 was the first U.S. tii manufactured in 1974. Although conflicts such as this are rare, it does happen occasionally. BMW Archives will determine which decoder is correct in this instance!

 

https://www.bmwclasicos.com/servicios.php#Como

 

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select?vin=2780905

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Conserv

[Rich Elliott]

I'll contact BMW archives and see what they say. I'll let you all know!

[Mike Self]

I suspect that BMW was using up their stock of Turkis paint for 1974--they must have had a lot left over from 1973 production, as it never was a very common color on either carbureted or injected cars.  

 

Of the few I've seen, they all seemed to have pretty low VINs, indicating  production in the waning months of 1973 or very early in calendar 1974.  We all know BMW did a lot of using up parts even after there had been an official change, and also introducing changes during a production year (6 to 8 bolt flywheels in March 1969, adding a plastic cover to the quarter window latches in January 1973, etc etc).  

 

Bottom line:  74 cars painted Turkis are rare beasts.

 

mike