introduction Newbie purchase advice

[NorthStar2002]

I am planning to buy a carbureted 2002. I've been reading up on them for a few months and finally drove one this week. What a blast.

 

I am thinking carbureted because it is a good entry level 2002 and I like working on the car myself. My goal is a driver for a rolling restoration. This is a hobby, not an investment. 

 

I am looking for some advice on a purchase I am considering. Low rust examples don't come up very often in Minneapolis where I live. But this '76 moved here from Georgia 2 years ago with its owner, a BMW mechanic. He and his father have done all the maintenance themselves since they purchased it in 1987, so there is no documentation. He states the 86,xxx mileage is real but again no documentation. A picture is attached. Seller did Weber 32/36 carb, electric fuel pump, headers, aluminum fly wheel and 5 speed trans conversion. 

 

Main questions: 

- engine and chassis numbers do not match. He says he has documentation the engine was swapped before it left the factory. Anyone ever heard of that before? I look forward to seeing the documentation.

- I looked at it up on his lift at work with good lighting. The only rust is in the spare tire well where there are full thickness holes. Is it odd that it should rust so much there but not at all in the rocker panels, wheel wells or shock towers? Engine bay and everything else are all rust-free.

 

Other than those 2 issues and the undocumented mileage, it seems like an honest driver. The exterior has been repainted once using paint that almost matches the correct Sienna Brown Metallic; paint job was with glass in and the quality is good from a foot away (to a newbie's eyes). Side trim missing and basket weave wheels. The interior needs work (dash cracks, worn Recaro seats that are from a 5-series and are too wide, replace headliner, A-pillar vent window doesn't close). 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, especially about the non-matching numbers and the rust. Thank you. I hope to be an owner and contribute to this forum soon.

 

[laundromatt]

The rust in the spare wheel well is not uncommon.  As for whether you should buy...  as with everything in life, it comes to money - price of the car, and how much you are willing to spend on it.  

 

Speaking of things not matching - looks like the front and rear wheels don't match?  Not a huge deal, but just happened to catch my eye.

Edited November 18, 2016 by laundromatt

[NorthStar2002]

Thanks. You are right about the wheels. I should have mentioned price -- seems very fair to me at $7500 if I can confirm the engine matches.

[PaulTWinterton]

Seems pretty fair even without matching numbers.

 

Spare tire wells hold dirty/wet tires and (northern climate) temperature fluctuations creates condensation between the rubber and the well.   Many wells rust from the inside out.

[Mike Self]

Just a few caveats for a first time 02 buyer...

 

Spare tire well rust is usually the result of a leaky trunk--it's the lowest spot so water leaking in--especially on the driver's side--will puddle in the trunk.  And on squarelights, if the seals around the bumper mounts/shocks are old or deteriorated, they provide another path into the trunk for water to penetrate.  

 

If the engine was replaced at the factory or shortly thereafter, the engine number won't be a run of just numbers (like the VIN); it'll be a combination of letters and numbers, which denote a factory "crate" engine.  Check FAQ archives for a discussion of those numbers.  If there's a straight set of numbers, it came from another 2002.  Post both chassis and engine numbers here and we can tell you the engine's origin.

 

I realize that ambient lighting can play hell with colors, but the car looks almost like Ceylon (a pale gold) rather than Sienna Brown--a much darker brown.  If the car was originally Sienna, look at places where it wasn't painted to check the color match.

 

Those basket weave wheels most likely came from an E21 320is--right diameter and width, but not the optimum offset for a 2002 and may rub--especially up front.  Not necessarily bad wheels for the car, just not optimum.

 

If the side trim has been deleted, look on the back side of the hood and trunk lids to make sure the holes were welded shut and not just filled with bondo; if the latter, you're gonna have problems up the line with the bondo cracking, rusting and falling out.  

 

Also it appears that the trim around the side glass (door and quarter panel) has been blacked out.  If so, see how it was done--hopefully not by tape or a quickie spray can.  There is a semi-gloss black SEM spray paint that sticks very well to both stainless steel and aluminum; hopefully that's what they used.  

 

Cheers, and good luck.  Just don't get buck fever and jump at the first one you see, thinking there aren't any others...

 

mike

 

 

[Conserv]

Engine changed before the car left the factory?  Very highly unlikely, but let's see the documentation he has.  There are lots of threads, as Mike alludes to, regarding factory exchange engines -- but they happened post-factory, not before the car was completed.  The markings on these factory exchange engines are easily decoded from a BMW bulletin:

 

http://s3.amazonaws.com/faquploads/monthly_2016_04/571dc783db4ea_SBTEngineIdentification_pdf.cee3f3e5b3f73ba232c566f2a6372a03?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Content-Sha256=UNSIGNED-PAYLOAD&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAJD5USCGK6UKUZQLA/20161118/us-east-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20161118T054548Z&X-Amz-Expires=1200&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=attachment; filename*=UTF-8''571dc783db4ea_SBTEngineIdentification.pdf&X-Amz-Signature=af9f5a764393624ab69ef7820225cde47c6f5184d16a714405582bd4244cf82d

 

Used cores were rebuilt by the factory and sold through BMW dealers.  When you bought one of these factory exchange engines you generally gave up your car's old engine as a core.  There are lots of threads on these engines, their identification, and dating, such as:

 

 

You also received a warranty with these factory exchange engines.  A warranty card is shown at the end of this post.

 

Most blocks are also dated on the exhaust side, in the vicinity of the number 1 and 2 cylinder freeze plugs:

 

 

How does the engine block's casting date (as well as the head's casting date) compare to the car's manufacturing date?

 

Email the car's VIN to BMW Archives (info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com) to confirm the car's manufacturing date and factory color.  Mike's certainly right: that car currently looks much more Ceylon (gold) than Sienabraun metallic (brown).

 

Regards and good luck,

 

Steve

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Conserv

[pklym]

For a hobby not an investment, rolling restoration, and especially for a 1976, I don't think numbers matching adds much if any value to the car. If it were a rarer year or trim then maybe, but not for a run of the mill 1976. Based on the just the info you provide, this doesn't strike me as a great deal but considering the market lately it may be pretty fair. Especially, as you point out, because it is hard to find a low-rust specimen in Minnesota.

[saaron]

I agree with the above comments 100%, but might add that if the spare tire well is rusty, and other parts aren't, that it is possible it has already had some rust repair done.  I noticed the rocker trim is missing.  I figure it is probably a victim of the "blackout" trim job, but maybe it never went back on after some work.  

 

And I think it is a custom color...it doesn't look like any 02 color I've ever seen.  

 

FWIW Hagerty's valuation tool says a '76 in "fair" condition is worth $6500, and one in "good" condition is worth $9500.  

 

02s are great fun.  Hope you land one soon.  

 

Scott

[Henning]

No siena, no ceylon. Siena is much more brown:

 

https://www.google.de/search?q=bmw+siena+braun&client=ubuntu&hs=lWY&channel=fs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirqfbkoLPQAhWLDcAKHYo1DwIQsAQIHA&biw=1445&bih=778

 

Ceylon is much more yellow:

 

https://www.google.de/search?q=bmw+ceylon&client=ubuntu&hs=yXY&channel=fs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEyNaIobPQAhUaM8AKHdiHDbMQsAQIHA&biw=1445&bih=778

 

Seems to be a newer E28 or E30 color to me- if any BMW color at all. You'd better check this out if repaints become necessary. For example, when shooting the bondo out of the holes for reinstalling the upper trim and the paint around turns to smoke.

 

hen

 

 

 

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, Henning said:

 

...Ceylon is much more yellow:

 

https://www.google.de/search?q=bmw+ceylon&client=ubuntu&hs=yXY&channel=fs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEyNaIobPQAhUaM8AKHdiHDbMQsAQIHA&biw=1445&bih=778

 

 

 

You're right, Hen!

 

 

[NorthStar2002]

Thank you to everyone for the advice. I have sent the engine and chassis numbers in to @bmwgroup. I'll let you know what we find. Thank Henning for pointing out the filled in trim holes.