Flex brake hose question...

[Mike Self]

Was inspecting front brakes recently (73 2002) and noticed that one of the four front flex brake hoses has a cracked and peeling outer black rubber cover--the other three are fine.

The actual woven hose underneath the outer cover is fine--no cracks, bulges or whatever...All four hoses were replaced at the same time, perhaps ten or so years ago, and they're OEM hoses. Has anyone enountered this problem? Interestingly, the front calipers are original--never been rebuilt, and all 8 pistons function as new!

When replacing, should I stick with OEM or use the braided stainless steel? What say y'all?

cheers

mike

[jgerock]

I'd install DOT-approved Stainless lines that have the outer jacketing.

[nbcbird]

Mike--SS, can't think of any advantage for using OEM rubber lines. Installation of rear lines is a nuisance tho.

[SteveJ]

Even though the lines were all bought and installed at the same time, there is no way of knowing if they were all four in the same production run. Think of the other guy that has three of his hoses failing.

Yeah,

I'd go for some SS hoses. I believe they are less prone to the failure of the hoses swelling shut inside.

I've been running SS hoses on my cars for the last 20 years with no issues.

[photog02]

I'll be the contrarian here and say go OE rubber. My reasoning on this is two-fold:

First, while SS hoses do offer some degree of greater pedal firmness, most of the change that people report come from replacing completely shot rubber brake hoses. If they had replaced them with rubber hoses, they would have noticed the same difference in pedal firmness.

Second, I am paranoid with regards to safety systems and view brake hoses as a wear item that deserves regular (i.e., twice a year) inspection. SS hoses do not allow me to see if any cracks or wear points are forming in the actual hose- it is all hidden under a stainless braid. Race teams run SS hoses, but then again they also replace them much more frequently.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't go for it. But I will say that there are some things to be aware of when switching to stainless.

[02for2]

I'll be the contrarian here and say go OE rubber. My reasoning on this is two-fold:

First, while SS hoses do offer some degree of greater pedal firmness, most of the change that people report come from replacing completely shot rubber brake hoses. If they had replaced them with rubber hoses, they would have noticed the same difference in pedal firmness.

Second, I am paranoid with regards to safety systems and view brake hoses as a wear item that deserves regular (i.e., twice a year) inspection. SS hoses do not allow me to see if any cracks or wear points are forming in the actual hose- it is all hidden under a stainless braid. Race teams run SS hoses, but then again they also replace them much more frequently.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't go for it. But I will say that there are some things to be aware of when switching to stainless.

Sorry... have to disagree. Quality DOT Braided Stainless Steel brake hoses are vastly superior to oem rubber hoses.

First, they're not rubber, they're PTFE Teflon inner hoses which are much more resistant, if not totally resistant, to all types of Brake Fluid. Rubber, on the other hand, does slowly react to Brake Fluid over time. Also, Rubber naturally dries out - the Teflon hoses do not. So long as they are never damaged by road debris, the SS Braided Hoses will last the life of the car.

And, the Stainless braiding not only insures that more of your 'pedal power' is directed to the caliper pistons (instead of expanding the rubber hoses as oem does), but they also protect the Teflon inner hoses from abrasions such as when driving over debris in the road. The SS couplings are corrosion resistant meaning that you're unlikely to have it sieze to the hard brake line.

'Off Road' SS baided hoses, while less expensive, are prone to loosening over time, which is why the DOT would not certify them, the DOT approved ones are not.

Still, it is a good idea to check them semi-annually as you suggest, and also to place a 'witness mark' on them with a paint pen when installing them so you can see whether they have loosened or not. Inspecting and marking the hoses is sound safety practice even if using the oem rubber hose too.

Cheers!

[c.d.iesel]

...... i 2nd what Justin said

and to 02for2,

ther's nothing wrong with the 'stainless racing' hoses,

it's the people who install them incorrectly and or

never look under the car again to monitor wear,

touching, binding, etc.....

[photog02]

So long as they are never damaged by road debris, the SS Braided Hoses will last the life of the car.

And, the Stainless braiding not only insures that more of your 'pedal power' is directed to the caliper pistons (instead of expanding the rubber hoses as oem does), but they also protect the Teflon inner hoses from abrasions such as when driving over debris in the road. The SS couplings are corrosion resistant meaning that you're unlikely to have it sieze to the hard brake line.

Teflon is not impervious to aging. The longer they are installed upon your car, the more time/exposure there is for wear to the inner teflon line (abrasives can find their way between the SS braid and the inner line, causing a weak point in the brake hose that you will never see) and the more opportunity for the couplings to seize on the fittings (ever tried to remove an oil filter that has been on an engine for a few years?).

No matter what type of brake hose you use, they will degrade over time. Please be safe and do not think that you can purchase a lifetime hose. That thought process can lead to some costly and unfortunate outcomes.

[02for2]

@Justin...

Not wanting to bring Flames to the discussion, but, sorry, in practical terms, so long as there is no physical damage to the hoses, they should well last the lifetime of the car, but in any event will certainly exceed the life of oem rubber hoses.

You wouldn't simply change them on a time-in-service schedule, especially for a non-primary vehicle, as most '02s are. You would change them when there is apparent damage or leaks from any of the likely causes. Also, realize that most quality SS braided hoses today have a synthetic outer coating or tubing over the braid specifically to eliminate abrasives from working their way between the braid and the Teflon inner hoses.

For what it's worth, my Late Father held several patents relating to Teflon (actually Teflon II) while he was with 3M Co. in the '70s, so, through him, I know a little more about it than many people. 3M decided not to compete with Dupont (the original patent holder) and so sold the patent rights to them who later marketed Teflon II. Teflon is impervious to Brake Fluid and ages much. much slower than rubber.

Sure, any manufactured product can fail, and yes, every manufactured product has a design lifespan.

And yes, Safety 1st - ALL brake components should be checked regularly.

But there's little doubt that the SS Braided Teflon Hoses are superior to oem rubber ones. OEM may be sufficient depending on your point of view, but they are not superior.

Cheers!

[photog02]

02for2- I suggest you re-read what I wrote. I am sure your daddy would agree that everything is subject to the forces of abrasion and metals love to seize against each other. ;-)

[02for2]

@justin:

Seems you're getting just a little disrespectful here so it's time for me to let it go and move to other topics.

Use whatever Brake Hoses you're comfortable with, for whatever reason.

Cheers!

[TobyB]

I'd use stainless steel DOT lines. In fact, I do on most of my cars,

both track and street.

One thing to keep in mind in all of this is that the 2002 has a very robust

dual curcuit system- one leak in the system can't disable the front

brakes.

And that's pretty cool.

t

[Kidasters]

Mike -

You've gotten lots of good advice here. I can't add to it. I can add that I re-did all of my lines to stainless a few years ago. No, I can't tell the difference with "pedal firmness" - doubt many of us could.

Yes - they look nicer - but how often do you crawl under there to look?

the only other thing I know (if you already don't, but I'm sure you do) - the easiest way to remove the rear ones is to cut them and use a deep socket.

Good luck. Let us know what you do.

Ken