engine and drivetrain 5speed install questions

[2joejoe2]

Hi,

 

I finally got around to installing my 5speed getrag 245. I am having some issues with the trans sitting off center in the car. Right now the trans wants to sit against the drivers side tunnel. It actually rubs on the trans mount on the tunnel. if I persuade the tranny over to the passenger side the output shaft and shift tower are off center. toward the passenger side. Is this normal? 

 

Also I am having issues with the Ie shift tower. It seems that the two mounting holes on the 245 trans are not the same height from the bottom of the trans up. The mounting hole on the passenger side of the trans is actually a bit lower than the one on the driver side. So, this means the shift tower sits on an angle down toward the passenger side. Is this normal?  it drives me nuts. I feel like the IE shift platform should accommodate for this angle. 

[adawil2002]

From what I've heard you need to widen the tunnel towards the driver side to accomodate the slave cylinder. Some bash the tunnel on the driver side with a big F'ing hammer and make a mess of it

 

Have you used the search function? Sure the subject has been well documented. May even be an article under the Articles tab.

[blackmesa533i]

Are you starting out with the 4speed to the 5speed or auto? If you're still having problems later on, i"ll be doing the swap for my auto within a couple of weeks and try to document if I get this problem and what i do to fix it. you might be finished by then tho so..

 

I saw this exact problem in an article on here 

[2joejoe2]

I made plenty of room for the slave cylinder. It's the rear of the trans that's hitting the drivers side trans mount. ...yes starting with 4speed.

[KFunk]

You do know that you can loosen up engine mounts and diff mounts and wiggle the angle around a bit, right?

[M3M3]

I made plenty of room for the slave cylinder. It's the rear of the trans that's hitting the drivers side trans mount. ...yes starting with 4spd.

 

normal, at least for the three 02's with 245's i have had.  rear of trans hits left side of tranny tunnel.  wiggling engine mounts does not fix.   just get the drive shaft aligned, that is all that matters.

Edited January 29, 2015 by mlytle

[2joejoe2]

Ok thank mlytle

[Mikepelly]

AGREED. Same thing happened to me. It aligns toward the driver side with very little clearance. When you install a custom support bracket take into consideration that the down pipe may interfere too. 

[MikeinNC]

This is not normal actually    You have something going on under there.   Never had a 5 speed conversion (and I have done a bunch) that had hit or set against the side of the tunnel.   (I am a traditionalist and stick with the method described in the Blue Book, relocation of tunnel mounts and narrowing of the cross member a little on each side) 

 

First of all the back of the tranny should nearly center in the tunnel.  It is close but should not hit or bang   Either your cross member does not have the mount hole in the correct spot or it has been narrowed improperly (assuming you did the classic mounting method)   So depending what method you are using to support the rear of the tranny, I think you need to do some tweeking   Also make sure you do not have the rear too high as that reduces your clearance as well.   

 

Also, the shifter platform mounting bolts should generally be equal distance from the ground.   In other words  a line between the two capscrew heads should be parallel to the ground.   So something is allowing your engine/tranny to cock, perhaps motor mounts

 

Good luck

Edited January 29, 2015 by MikeinNC

[rms_sandiego]

I'm with mlytle.

 

I do agree it is worth looking very hard at your motor mounts and particularly at the left to make sure it is not cracked, bent, or actually broken. Having said that, my experience with my 5-speed install was much like the OP.

 

 

First check this link... What you are describing is not unusual.

 

Second, the 245 is not symmetrical. The tranny itself has more mass on the left/drivers side than the right and so even when the output shaft dead center, there is less clearance on the drivers side. I have the sense that the earlier cars had a narrower transmission tunnel but I am not sure.  I couldn't get the transmission in the right position without cutting out the original drivers side 4 speed bracket. So if you haven't, that is probably where to start.

 

You can get some leeway by opening the center bearing support holes up a little bit and making sure the center bearing position allows you to align the front of the driveshaft correctly. That is really the critical step.

[2joejoe2]

This is not normal actually You have something going on under there. Never had a 5 speed conversion (and I have done a bunch) that had hit or set against the side of the tunnel. (I am a traditionalist and stick with the method described in the Blue Book, relocation of tunnel mounts and narrowing of the cross member a little on each side)

First of all the back of the tranny should nearly center in the tunnel. It is close but should not hit or bang Either your cross member does not have the mount hole in the correct spot or it has been narrowed improperly (assuming you did the classic mounting method) So depending what method you are using to support the rear of the tranny, I think you need to do some tweeking Also make sure you do not have the rear too high as that reduces your clearance as well.

Also, the shifter platform mounting bolts should generally be equal distance from the ground. In other words a line between the two capscrew heads should be parallel to the ground. So something is allowing your engine/tranny to cock, perhaps motor mounts

Good luck

Well if the bottom of the tranny is supposed to be level from right to left then the shift tower bolts will never be level.

Stole this pic online....but it's exactly like mine. Tranny wants go to drivers side and you can see the angle in the shift tower

[2joejoe2]

As you can see the angle here.

[thehackmechanic]

I've had the same experience as Marshall, with the back of the 245 far to the left. I posted about the question of lack of adjustability of the engine on the mounts last year, the general conclusion being that the left-right twist of the engine on the mounts is not really an independently adjustable variable. You can lever the back of the transmission over to the right, but it a) affects the alignment of the driveshaft to the guibo, and swings one side of the fan closer to the radiator. On my current '72 tii, for a number of reasons (including being cracked in the nose in the distant past and a new nose having been installed slightly cocked), these issues are worse than any other 02 I've ever put a 5-speed into. I did the "all that matters is the driveshaft-to-guibo alignment" thing, and drove it that way to MidAmerica 02Fest and back last year (3150 miles) with zero issues... EXCEPT THAT when I start the car, the normal engine movement is enough to cause the back of the 245 to whack into the transmission mounting tabs. I'm using a U-shaped bracket that attaches to the original mounting tabs. So one method is to get rid of the original tabs in favor of relocated tabs and a straight-across bracket. In the short term, though, I'm going to just loosen the bracket, lever the back of the trani slightly over to the right (just enough so it doesn't smack on startup), and see what effect that has on guibo life.

[jimk]

As you can see the angle here.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1422506866.706206.jpg

If your engine sits at the correct angle, the transmission will be set accordingly because it bolts to the engine?  Sitting it on the floor is not applicable to determining if the holes will be level in the car.

 

BTW, the left hole is drilled thru to the inside of the case and is a source of gearbox oil leakage (and mess).   To check, just fill the trans on the floor to the fill hole, and tip up the bell housing, oil will come out that hole (or just blow on the bolt boss and you will know if the hole is open to the case).  Seal the bolt when installing the shift platform.  I see many struggles where people work on the rear seal and it is only one source of leakage (and probably not the source of the mess).

[adawil2002]

Not sure if this pic is of any help but this is what Vern's 5-speed looks like. The 5-speed was already installed when I bought him in May of 2010. The previous owner had bought him with the 5-speed installed in 2008. Car was in CA from 1973-2008. Who ever did the work did a really good job.