engine and drivetrain '84 318i M10 swap.

[nickymono]

My 02 m10 is running fine, could use some carb adjustment and the valve seals are worn and old. It probably could use a head gasket too. I've got a line on a pretty young M10 from a 318... Would that swap in just fine? I know I'd have to deal with fuel if I left the head and manifold on there. Otherwise, could I use my 32/36 with the 318's head? I know these engines are a bit more modern, but are they worth it? Would I lose some '02 spice by going with efi? What's the best angle to take here? Open to suggestions, but don't suggest full engine rebuild for a race motor. A poor college kid like me can only afford to dream of such an endeavor.

Thanks for your help!

[martind5]

The 318i M10 will work fine. Other than cam spinning the wrong direction (which doesn't matter as long as the distributor gear matches), the crank being different, etc... it's the same motor from an external perspective. You will most likely want to use your existing transmission, as the five speed that usually is mated to it, is more difficult to mate up to the 2002 (See many posts on this).

Fuel Injection - It's your choice. Yes, not original, but a great enhancement for smooth running, cold starts, tuning capability, etc.... Lots of opinions here, but mine is that it's just a personal choice. I wouldn't want it on a car I was trying to keep original, but if it's just for fun, why not?

Have fun, and I'll let the experts correct me here.

Devin

[skipsfcr]

Yes it's an easy install. Keep the head on the block. You can use your 2bbl manifold and Weber or it's pretty easy to use the efi setup complete. If you co carb you'll need a low pressure electric fuel pump in the trunk. If you keep the efi it's best to buy an '88 up E30 (318is / 325i) in-tank fuel pump and sender. It's a direct twist-in replacement for the stock gauge sender in the tank. The 1.8 oil pan will fit with some work but it's easier to swap your '02 oil pan and associated components. Don't forget to search the archives here too. I'm sure there's more good, detailed info to be found.

[4x2]

Have fun, and I'll let the experts correct me here.

The cam spins in the same direction, the distributor doesn't due to a different cam gear ;-)

The 318i oil pan does fit with some modifications, either cutting up the front subframe a bit or changing the lower oil pan.

I went for modifying the pan last week, the lower pan is made from metal so changing it is quite easy (cut cut, weld, hammer, weld, hammer, done)

http://www.zeke.nl/hosting/harrie/1602/Turbo/IMG_8556(Large).JPG

http://www.zeke.nl/hosting/harrie/1602/Turbo/IMG_8561(Large).JPG

http://www.zeke.nl/hosting/harrie/1602/Turbo/IMG_8563(Large).JPG

It's somewhat of an improvement because you can remove the oil pan without raising the engine (lower pan, oil pump, upper pan)

And it has an extra valve in the oil pump to relieve cold pressure (so no more 7 billion psi of oil pressure the firste 1-2 miles when it's really cold outside)

Although the 02 oil pan and pump fit and work just fine.

Apart from that, it's an easy and worthwhile swap, they usually don't burn as much oil due to the newer style valve guides and seals.

[Harv]

The 318i M10 will work fine. Other than cam spinning the wrong direction (which doesn't matter as long as the distributor gear matches)

Not picking on you, but I see this a lot.

The cam spins the same way as any other M10. It's the cut of the gear on the end of the cam that is different, and so is the one on the corresponding distributer. In the end the distributer spins the other way. You can use the late distributer a few different ways. One is that you can fire off a MSD box with the distributer, the other way is to use a module and a simple wiring diagram that Skipsfcr posted a few days ago.

John

[Mike Self]

more consistent operation of fuel injection, but don't expect a big power boost. The 318i engine put out about the same hp as the carbureted 2 liter 2002 engine. You'll have to look elsewhere for more power.

mike

[skipsfcr]

I did the other thing that's been suggested many times before when I installed a 2.0 liter reground cam in my L-Jet 1.8...I disassembled a worn (but complete) tii distributor and installed the gear & lower shaft assembly including the weights & springs in my 1.8 distributor. I used the upper shaft from the E30 distributor so the pickup coil could be retained, thus making it an electronic tii distributor. The bushings in the later unit are in excellent shape so everything is nice & tight. Of course since it's got the tii mechanical advance mechanism I did away with the vacuum advance diaphragm. Works excellent.

[gone002]

hey skip can we see pics and more info on this ?

[nickymono]

hey skip can we see pics and more info on this ?

Agreed! That sounds like an interesting and worth-while setup.

Thanks guys for all your help! I'm not too afraid to jump into this. I have been wanting to go with a 5-speed conversion for a while now.... what makes this more difficult than the e21 conversion?

Looking forward to getting this e30 and starting the swap!!!!

[skipsfcr]

Nickymono...no need for you convert your distributor as the stock E30 distributor is already what you need.

I converted mine to correspond with an earlier type camshaft while still retaining the OE electronics of the distributor which function so well with the stock efi system. .

The reason you can't simply change the distributor drive gear (as pointed out in earlier threads by others including Harv) is that you'll have NO distributor advance as the weights will pull in centripetally if spun in the opposite direction. Therefore you must install the early type lower shaft and gear into a later distributor or the later style upper shaft and pickup coil into an earlier distributor.

This picture from REALOEM illustrates the tii distributor individual component view. They don't show the E30 distributor disassembled. They also don't show the lower shaft that the distributor drive gear pins onto.

Bottom line is piece #5 ,the upper half of the shaft (different between electronic and breaker point type distributors) which holds the rotor, is hollow, has a machine screw down the center, and can be unscrewed from the lower half of the distributor shaft. Thereby allowing the lower shaft of a tii (or other '02 distributor) to be dropped into the later electronic housing. Conversely, the upper (#5) piece could be installed into an earlier distributor but a hole needs to be cut into the distributor housing for the electrical connection to the pickup coil to protrude to the outside of the unit. It's not rocket science either way and works really well. It does require you to use the ignition control module (igniter / power transistor) from an '80-'83 E21 320i or an '84-85 E30 318i and you'll also need the pigtail from the module and from the distributor to make your own harness. This photo (borrowed from Fiftytakedowns' blog) shows the ignition module hanging from the harness on the lower left and the plug-in on the distributor for the electronic pickup coil.

[rijco]

I had a rebuilt M10B18 motor installed in my 1602 without the FI and it was pretty straightforward. We used a stock (rebuilt) 318i distributor (they are readily available from rebuild shops for under $100.00 with core) and the original ignition control module, without any modifications, which means no EDIS conversion or other aftermarket swapping. The carb is a Weber 38/38 on a stock (reamed out) '02 intake manifold. The Ireland header and exhaust fit just fine. I refreshed a stock '02 oil pan, added a windage tray and swapped in a new '02 oil pump since the 318 oil pump won't fit in the '02 oil pan. We lightened the flywheel, installed an M3 starter, an 80 amp alternator, and retrofitted a push fan with temperature control switch in lieu of the motor driven fan. That's about it. Oh, and installed an IE fuel pump under the back seat (should have put it in the trunk - noisy!) and pressure regulator since the M10B18 doesn't have accommodation for mechanical fuel pump. While we were at it, we put in a 5 speed and LSD.

The motor sings along nicely, breathes well and starts so easily and consistently, even in the dead of winter, I forget it's not fuel injected! Given that there's plenty of these motors around I'm surprised this isn't a more common swap. My son has a stock '76 '02 with a strong motor and a 38/38 and there is little practical difference in actual performance between the two cars in spite of the difference in displacement. It might be different on the track, but to the store and back is what most of us are actually doing!

[nickymono]

Thumbs up to that post. Exactly what I needed to hear! Why didn't you go with FI? Sounds like your carb is, well, perfectly tuned, which I think is rare among 3838's. My 3236 is a pile-o-.... Not impressed with performance, reliability, OR economy (I only get about 20mpg... normal?). So FI or 3838 seems to be in my future.

Thanks for your first hand account of how this swap will be. I'm getting more and more excited. Now all I need to happen is for that guy to call me back so I can put this e30 in my driveway, and start flossing out that motor.

[rijco]

The motor was a short block and I already had a brand new 38/38.

[4x2]

I refreshed a stock '02 oil pan, added a windage tray and swapped in a new '02 oil pump since the 318 oil pump won't fit in the '02 oil pan.

The oil pump does fit if you pry of the small bowl and strainer from the pickup and install the 02 strainer, they're the same height (rotor center <> bottom of the pickup) but the 318i pomp is located more to the front of the pan.

Not sure if you would get any oil starvation, but a few well placed baffles should prevent that.

[allbim]

Nickymono...no need for you convert your distributor as the stock E30 distributor is already what you need.

I converted mine to correspond with an earlier type camshaft while still retaining the OE electronics of the distributor which function so well with the stock efi system. .

The reason you can't simply change the distributor drive gear (as pointed out in earlier threads by others including Harv) is that you'll have NO distributor advance as the weights will pull in centripetally if spun in the opposite direction. Therefore you must install the early type lower shaft and gear into a later distributor or the later style upper shaft and pickup coil into an earlier distributor.

This picture from REALOEM illustrates the tii distributor individual component view. They don't show the E30 distributor disassembled. They also don't show the lower shaft that the distributor drive gear pins onto.

Bottom line is piece #5 ,the upper half of the shaft (different between electronic and breaker point type distributors) which holds the rotor, is hollow, has a machine screw down the center, and can be unscrewed from the lower half of the distributor shaft. Thereby allowing the lower shaft of a tii (or other '02 distributor) to be dropped into the later electronic housing. Conversely, the upper (#5) piece could be installed into an earlier distributor but a hole needs to be cut into the distributor housing for the electrical connection to the pickup coil to protrude to the outside of the unit. It's not rocket science either way and works really well. It does require you to use the ignition control module (igniter / power transistor) from an '80-'83 E21 320i or an '84-85 E30 318i and you'll also need the pigtail from the module and from the distributor to make your own harness. This photo (borrowed from Fiftytakedowns' blog) shows the ignition module hanging from the harness on the lower left and the plug-in on the distributor for the electronic pickup coil.

Centripetal force will always pull the weights out. That has nothing to do with direction of rotation. However, with the wrong advance mechanism you will get ignition retard instead of advance.