Alpina 320 cam...how difficult are they to find

[74AlpinaTii]

I'm pretty new to the forum and I've been reading through as many topics as possible. After reviewing, I would like to make an attempt to build the Alpina A4S spec motor, but am not sure if that will be possible.

I'm under the impression that the Alpina 320 Cam is going to be the missing piece to the puzzle. Is that cam actually going to be possible to find or should I just plan on going a different route? Second, if found, am I going to need to refinance the house to purchase it?

If I can get everything needed for the A4S, I realize tuning will be an issue along with finding someone that can tune the motor, but I'd like to give it the old college try...

Anyone have any other advise for me?

Thanks,

Brian

[tjones02]

Or almost as good or better than buying one: borrowing one to send to Elgin Cams to be copied...

http://www.elgincams.com/

[themoose]

Hope you have a big piggy bank for this project! Considering someone on the board spend over 3k for a rebuildable A4 injection system without original K-pump and during the discussion it was guessed that only around 200 of the systems were made, I'll just wish you good luck. Not to mention trying to find the cam, if you manage to pull it off for less than an ungodly sum, god bless you!

[74AlpinaTii]

I've got a mint condition A4 injection system on the car. The car also has #6 fuel cam, but it doesn't have any other Alpina or performance parts. I'd like to be able to utilize the performance parts already on the car, otherwise they are purely for show...

[inkatouring]

According to Taylor and McCartney's book and other on-line sources I have read (but can't find right now) both the A4 and A4S used the 300* cam. Nor can I imagine a street Alpina using the 320* cam. I believe the differences between the A4 and A4S are (1) the pistons (both 10:1, but the former being stock BMW tii pistons and the latter being forged); (2) the con rods; and (3) the amount of porting and such. Taylor and McCartney recognize the first two in their spec sheet comparison.

You will find much misinformation out there about what Alpina did or did not do on the A4/A4S or many other cars of that vintage. So rebuilding to exact spec is difficult to do, if you can even figure out what that spec really is.

[rover1]

I have heard that schrick makes a 3thirty something cam for the m10 why not go that route?

[Guest Anonymous]

Unfortunately their is "misinformation" as well in Taylor & McCartney's book, so much so I gave mine away (pretty useless really) IMO. At any rate discussed by various folks on this board with varying levels of understanding of what ALPINA offered, it is a fact that they did produce an A4s motor with a 320 cam. That particular motor if my memory serves me had a 11;0:1 CR pistons, hemi chambers, etc., I was told by a German fellow a long time ago that the "S" in A4s was for "Sondermodell" (meaning Special motor) as in full hemispherical chambers, porting etc., They did produce an A4s motor that used the 300 cam as well. ALPINA acutally had their own version of the 300 that was a small bearing cam not requiring line boring of the cam journals in the head (as needed for the large bearing factory 300). Bottom line is if someone is going to go this route they absolutely need a pump that will flow the fuel to handle the cam (and then of course bigger valves, high octane fuel for the HC pistons, an appropriate header ......and on and on and on). Good luck with your project.

[Guest Anonymous]

The S in A4S is for 'Schmiedekolben', forged pistons. The earlier post about the A4 having tii pistons and the A4S having forged pistons is correct. It is the S in TISA that stands for SonderAusfuhrung.

Cheers,

Tom

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks Tom for the clarification. It just goes to show how much misinformation there is (certainly on my part as well). When you don't know any better and someone suggests something that seems to make sense (and this guy was from Germany).....made sense to me. I am sure you could have a 320 cam made if you wanted, that motor would be "knarly" for sure in terms of performance. My advice is that if you want that cam, watch Ebay.de for one (I did see one for sale in the last few months, so they do come up from time to time), or check with Cahsel or Ahrend in Germany.

[inkatouring]

Thanks Tom for the clarification. It just goes to show how much misinformation there is (certainly on my part as well). When you don't know any better and someone suggests something that seems to make sense (and this guy was from Germany).....made sense to me. I am sure you could have a 320 cam made if you wanted, that motor would be "knarly" for sure in terms of performance. My advice is that if you want that cam, watch Ebay.de for one (I did see one for sale in the last few months, so they do come up from time to time), or check with Cahsel or Ahrend in Germany.

We're all feeling our way around in the dark, given the (lack of) record keeping by Alpina. My guess is that the A4S came with the 300* cam unless you ordered it otherwise. It would be nice to get a hold of one of the 300* cams that did not require the bearing notching or boring. Then we could get the thing to reach it's full potential.....

[74AlpinaTii]

Thanks for all of the helpful information!

So I gather my best bet would either to go with a 300 cam, or a Schrick 284 or 292. The 320 is probably going to be a little difficult to find, not to mention expensive. I'm also thinking that the car could benefit from headers and exhaust.

With the cam, headers and exhaust, and running the A4 injection system, how beneficial would it be to swap out the stock pistons for light weight pistons?

Also, with the above mentioned modifications and proper tuning, I'm hoping that gets the car around the 160-170 hp mark. Does that seem about right, or am I being optimistic?

[inkatouring]

Thanks for all of the helpful information!

So I gather my best bet would either to go with a 300 cam, or a Schrick 284 or 292. The 320 is probably going to be a little difficult to find, not to mention expensive. I'm also thinking that the car could benefit from headers and exhaust.

With the cam, headers and exhaust, and running the A4 injection system, how beneficial would it be to swap out the stock pistons for light weight pistons?

Also, with the above mentioned modifications and proper tuning, I'm hoping that gets the car around the 160-170 hp mark. Does that seem about right, or am I being optimistic?

I've never driven one with the 300* cam, but I've had A4s with both schrick 292* and 304* cams. I have not detected enough difference to warrant the 304. 284 would be too mild, in my opinion.

I'm sure Dubois will chime in with his experience driving the "other" inka touring (which had an A4 and the 300* cam). I would personally choose between those two cams.

The A4 -- not A4S -- used stock BMW pistons and I think those are fine. Both of mine have had aluminum flywheels and I really liked that upgrade.

Alpina used headers, but there are disagreements over whether that actually gets you more horsepower or not short of full race motors. Mine had them.

Alpina give figures of 160 bhp for the A4 and 170 for the A4S. Allegedly, Jan's car (the other inka touring A4) was dyno'ed by Alpina at 180, but I don't know if that is really true. Dubois does say it was one of the smoothest A4s he has driven.

Ultimately, cams, pistons, exhausts all depend on what you plan to use the car for, how often you want to drive it, and how "streetable" a drive you want.

[m-racer]

Have you contacted Alpina directly? A few years ago when I was trying to get their help on my Alpina B9, they were not very helpful. I have been told by quite a few people that they are currently much more willing to supply info on the older cars. Might be worth a shot.

[dapbmw]

you meant a 324 in the a4s. dbilas makes brand new cams in that duration ground from blank billets the faq store sells it. i would not buy used cams as they are at least 30 years old now and may have pitting hairline cracks etc....you also have to change the internal cam on the kfish to match the cam.

btw the a4s is rated at 195 hp with 11:1 forged pistons, i have an old 1976 german mag with the a4s in it that tells all the specs. the early 1600 alpina race/rally car i think used a 336 cam.

[TobyB]

Unfortunately their is "misinformation" as well in Taylor & McCartney's book, so much so I gave mine away (pretty useless really) IMO.

Well, someone got a deal, then... McCartney's a good starting place, and

nothing in there is really a lie. It was written a while ago, and it was the best that

there was at the time. And he knew the grammatical difference between 'there' and 'their'...

There are a few things that he overgeneralized, and a very few that he

got wrong- but honestly, some German guy in the internet's going

to get things wrong from time to time, too.

The ultimate authority on oddball hotrod parts 40 years ago? Hell, no.

Better than nothing- hell, yes.

And a place to start for a lot of people.

t