2002tii vs 3.0cs

[reichelroque]

Thanks for the feedback To answer some of your questions:

What do I want from the car: I want a weekend driver/project. Doesn't have to be immaculate, wouldn't mind having to do some work on it. But not planning a huge resto, at least not at the present. I plan to buy a car that I'm going to keep for years and slowly make the upgrades/resto that it needs.

As to what I prefer...that's the problem. I'd love to have both, but at moment, only one is realistic...someday though

I am leaning towards getting the CS, because like I said before, I love them both, but I've owned 2002 before. Maybe it's time for a CS. Things that worry me though is the rust. I know they have rust issues, just didn't know that they are worse than 2002 in that arena...sigh. I also know that they are more expensive and harder to find parts for.

In the long run if I get a CS I know I'll probably be in over my head...but I can't help myself! I'm going to be test driving both this weekend, so hopefully that will settle some things. BTW I live in California and the CS's that I have my eye on look to be in great shape (rust/body-wise) but maybe I'm just being naive...lol.

[reichelroque]

BTW Here are a couple of 2000 CS's...not my style really, but maybe someone else is interested?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/986558990.html

eBay Item # 270321729874

[MarkB]

You'll get another set of good answers at the e9 coupe forum, as well as tech info and rust information on the main page:

www.e9coupe.com

With the e9 coupe the adage of buying the best example you can possibly afford is extremely relevant!

CSi coupes are more rare, all were imported as the fuel injection was not available in the states.

Generally agreed that the '72 with the smaller chrome bumpers is the most elegant looking. '74 got the big bumpers like the 2002.

Mark B

[B-Doon]

There's a cool restored 3.0CS for sale in phoenix....Haven't seen it in person myself, but I know it's been at this place for about a year now....they might be willing to deal...23k

http://http://the-toy-box.com/92.htm

[c.d.iesel]

2002 / tii = $ $ $ ................ Coupe = $ $ $ $ $

majestic style, great M30 BigBlockSix Zylinder motor,

turn a turd like that into THIS ! -=>

another happy face -=>

[Retrogroucher]

Agree w/ all above.

You gotta drive both and then decide. My brother resurrected a coupe from 3 parts cars and it has new suspension bits throughout, so it's "new." It still has nearly the flex of a 'vert and, God love it, it feels a bit like an oldsmobuick compared to a stiff little '02. It's a lovely vehicle, just different than an '02.

[rns7602]

Prices rather parts on the 3.0 cs are unneccesarily pricey but are available through LaJolla, fellow e9 owners, etc.

There was recently a discussion on the e9 board about the price of gas tanks (3.0 vs 02) and interchangeability. The discussion about coupes vs 02s was raised on this board in the past as well. Do a search, I recall there being lively exchanges. In short, E9s are not for the faint of heart and not only for the rich. They are terrible rust buckets and one would be better served buying the best example they could afford. No matter what you get, mechanical components are the least of your concern.

I sold a 1970 2800cs years ago to finance the completion of my 02 and regret it. That car is the reason why I have had two coupe projects going for the last four years and a Buick Riviera-for the feeling of completion. The 2800cs was relatively clean, unmolested, needed interior work, and with respect to rust, was only in need of work in the rear towers. The new owner drives it, gives me updates, and sends pictures. I'm so jealous and happy for him.

With the market tanking and some folks having to sell thier toys for financial reasons, a good example can be found for $7k - $14k. Many of the folks on this board like turning their own wrench, why not on this as well? If you don't do work yourself, have friends and/or a lot of time to spread out the damage, or... have a lot of disposable income. Someone wrote in an earlier post that they prefer an 02 to a coupe. To each his or her own, but my 02 doesn't compare to my coupes. A well sorted 02 doesn't compare to a comparably sorted coupe. Period. I wanted to buy two coupes just so I could explore my feel for design on one and the other to simply beat the hell out of it. It's a pretty car, perfect size, lines, and balance. Folks call it James Bondish. You almost feel the need to baby it. That's why Schnell sold his, why keep a garage queen? These cars are meant to be driven. CD and others will attest to the sweet sound of the straight six, and the power when compared to the 02.

I ended up having two just because of the cost of parts and the latest edition having an engine (built by Erik Kermen, LI builder) and trim that was worth more than the price of the car. I put so much work into the first car, I couldn't imagine scrapping it and wouldn't break even on what I put into it in the condition the body was in. Paint and body was completed on November 29, 2008. [sidebar] It was to come home on 12/2 but I lost my home to a fire on 12/1. Now the car doesn't come home and I lost many of those overpriced parts (and the reasonably priced parts from Blunt too). Home insurer (Allstate) will only cover the first $1k. The other antique cars are with Hagerty (read your policies!). Because I wasn't close to having the car on the road and it was in a friends shop being painted, I didn't bother to insure the vehicle-bad move. I was about to, which would have offered coverage in some form for the parts lost.

If you have the resources, space, and time, get both. If you have the time and the desire to learn, get a project and work on it. Almost all e9s are pieces of crap in some form until restored so don't feel as if you are being shorted. Just document the work for others or ask to see the work that was performed.

I wrote a chapter, sorry. Signing off. Its a hell of a car and many who own the 02 own and/or play with a friend's coupe for a reason. I've attached a few pictures: Paul Cain's coupe, an uber nice ceylon that recently sold, and a few other e9s including the interior of Chuck Moss's coupe, a former 02 owner. He prefers the coupe but misses his 02 and has tried for the last year to take my 02 off my hands. I won't make the same mistake twice.

[devo1]

It really comes down to what you want from either car.

My CS is the ultimate long distance, see the landscape, cruiser - all that gorgeous glass to see the world through. With a 3.5 block and 5 spd the miles just fall away. And it is the most beautiful body BMW ever designed - except for that rust thing.

The 02 is what I use around town and on the twisties. Great fun and feels so connected to the seat of my pants. Not necessarily all that fast but so much fun. Maybe when the recaros are installed I will feel better about driving 800 miles at a time but until then the CS is the long distance champ.

On the cost side, I paid triple for the CS that I paid for the 02. The 02 is as close to rust free as an unrestored car can get whereas the CS was given a refresher that got the car to a 10 footer in terms of appearance - very, very little rust after 8 years but it is there if you know where to look. The CS came highly modified with a bigger block, bilsteins, ST coils and sways and full recaro (red leather) interior upgrade. I've since done a lot of these same things to the 02 so have a sense of what the relative cost of working on these two classics is about.

The bare metal shell restoration to "like new" of a good 2002 is expensive whereas the same work on a CS is ....significantly more expensive. Fewer CS were built so fewer parts remain and they have rust like teenagers get acne expect pieces actually fall off so maybe it's more like leprosy. The same guys that do good work on 2002's probably also do the same for the CS. They can tell you more accurately but I bet the full meal deal will be triple for the CS compared to the the 2002.

Upgrades like a 5spd are remarkably similar because the work and the parts are almost identical. Engine rebuilds are also very similar as the engines are almost identical - just a couple of extra cylinders so proportionately more money. Recovering seats using the same material is close, but a complete restoration of the CS dash and wood work is way more money. Mechanically, the cost for either car are comparable and not unreasonable especially if you are able to do a lot yourself. Got to love that about either car.

Regardless, buy the best body with the most work already done that you can afford and then spend your time on the mechanials and have fun with it.

Buy a lottery ticket and get both.

[JonErwin]

The coupe is a BIG hammer the 02 much more fun in the twisties .When I drive the coupe people stare, Its just too pretty to ignore.The 02 is more of an athlete ,longer legs more top speed can be made to handle as well as an 02 but the cost is enormous. As for color colorado orange and mintgrun are what looks hot to me .On the coupe silver is hard to beat. Its all about ultimate expression of YOUR personality. Unfortunatly I'm a gemini and had to keep both.

[Arky2002]

I (very briefly) had a 3.0CS back in 1989. It looked great and sexy and was fun to drive (dual Weber downdrafts) but parts prices can be horrendous. Practically nothing in the body is will exchange with other cars - last time I checked, interior door panels were in the $700 (each) range. Tii parts are much more available and many parts swap.

IMHO, the way to make a small fortune restoring a 3.0CS is to start with a large fortune

But it is only money

[rns7602]

I (very briefly) had a 3.0CS back in 1989. It looked great and sexy and was fun to drive (dual Weber downdrafts) but parts prices can be horrendous. Practically nothing in the body is will exchange with other cars - last time I checked, interior door panels were in the $700 (each) range. Tii parts are much more available and many parts swap.

IMHO, the way to make a small fortune restoring a 3.0CS is to start with a large fortune

But it is only money

If one were to spend $1,400 on door panels alone it would take a mortgage, trust fund, or winning lottery ticket to rebuild. Yes, it is only money. For those that have to be a little more prudent, another option is to take a trip to the lumber yard, by the appropriate board, buy hide or vinyl, and commission a upholsterer to make it as you want it.

This approach allowed me to shape every detail of my car, mechanically and aesthetically. Based on the prices I've seen, also keeps costs down without compromising quality. I see my cars as fun projects and an escape. Anytime it gets to frustrating, I back away from it.

Larson did the interior on one of my coupes. As much of an ass as he can be, he did quality work, and it wasn't $700 a panel. As the masses would chime in, good luck getting it. On my malaga coupe, I found a local shop to do equally exceptional work, didn't have to pay freight and was able to make design adjustments as needed, thanks to proximity.

I sold a 911 two years ago out of fear of maintenance costs. I figured hold on to the coupe as I already have a BMW and relationships. I regret selling the 911 but I had to, hey, do what you gotta do. Seems like both coupes should have went if I incorporate the same logic.

[Harv]

WOW!

JOhn

[rns7602]

Harv, here's some more candy. I've attached a picture of my Malaga e9 that will probably have a 3.5 and 5 speed dropped in. Check out the Bavaria; I love it.

[TobyB]

Jeez, if you can find a nice one, the CS any day!

t

[AlaskaMike]

Wow and I thought the CS were ugly before this thread. That fjord one is heart-stopping !!