K-fish, to rebuild or not rebuild

[gwb72tii]

that is the question

I'm starting the sloowww rebuild of the tii motor. From what i've read recently about tii's coming alive over 4k rpm, ours has not run correctly since we bot her 2 years ago. It's too late to try and tune the injection, and the motor is tired, so..........................

do I or don't I have the pump rebuilt. It's not a question of $, just if it should be done. Car has 190k, is box stock. It seems to me it is good practice to make sure the major operating components are 100% b4 they go back in the car.

I don't want to throw money away, but if it should be rebuilt, now is the time.

[Craig74tii]

to be rebuilt or not. That's what I've done. It's been there a while, but I'm not in a hurry to get it back. I sent my injectors also.

Craig74tii

[02fanatic]

I think you need to give us more information on how your car runs....Kugelfischer pumps are known for being strong and basically bullitproof...but I can't tell from what you said what your problem is.

If you simply think because your engine is tired (leaky rings, timing off, etc.) the pump needs rebuilt, it isn't necessarily so.

If the pump has been lubricated and kept clean, it's probably just fine.

John

[gwb72tii]

The car has always been hard to start, even after a valve adjustment and timing, and I think the fuel pump is tired also. The rebuild is going to happen just because, if for no other reason, I need something to do over the winter, and the motor has a lot of miles on it. I could probably do without the rebuild, but what the heck. Besides, the rear main seal is shot, first gear is notchy and I'm thinking of a 5spd and LSD while I'm at it.

I like the idea of sending the K-fish it to a tech who can tell me if it needs to be rebuilt.

Were yours rebuilt, or just cleaned up and used as is?

Your cars look great, btw.

[AlCanuck]

Hey George,

Why not run it down the road to Wes Ingram in Seattle? He's got a great reputation, and is currently working a friend's 6 cylinder K Fish pump from his M1.

Al

[02fanatic]

There you have two guys to send your pump to...so considering everything else, maybe that's not such a bad idea...I'm just not so quick to plump down $800 to $1,000 if not absolutely necessary...unless they will look at it for a nominal fee before doing the rebuild...but I doubt it.

When I found Hugo in a salvage yard...he hadn't run for 6 months...I pulled out the old crumpled nose, removed the broken fan blade, installed new plugs, and he kicked off after two cranks!!! Amazing these tii's are huh?

I did not rebuild the engine....I disassembled everything except the block with head and the kugelfischer (although I removed it and replaced the suction valve seals).

Once I repainted reassembled the engine, and I reinstalled the Kugelfischer...he cranked right up and purred like new.....maybe I got lucky...but the point is Kugelfischers are hardy and seldom really need to be rebuilt unless they've been fooled with or not kept clean (they detest dirt!) Be sure to clean the filter at the inlet...replace the fuel line filters.

My other tii is original...never been rebuilt...113k miles. I've never touched the Kugelfischer.

Just saying it "may not be necessary"...but never hurts to have an expert take a look I suppose...it's your call.

Good luck with the rebuild. I have a spare tii engine VIN 2760081 that sits in my garage...I have two Kugelfischers to try on that one..I may try to use the original one, but it's pretty ratty looking...but my bet is it will work just fine! :-)

John

[_z_]

Hey George,

Why not run it down the road to Wes Ingram in Seattle? He's got a great reputation, and is currently working a friend's 6 cylinder K Fish pump from his M1.

Al

Ya let him bench test it and see if its needs any work. Its not like you are going to be able to rebuild it yourself (i assume), so send it to Wes or Dave and have them give it a checkout.

Get your injectors checked too while you are at it

[ibjettin]

My '73 TII sat for 6yrs and with just minor tweaking fired right up, I am very impressed with the injection system on these cars.

When you first go to start it do you try to crank it over right away or do you let the fuel pump pump for several seconds before hand?

Just a tip someone told me that proved to be very valuable

(thanks jetboy:))

[BillWilliams]

1. Have it checked if you can get it done cheaply. No fun to take all that plumbing loose while the motor is in the car. However, like John states, they really are stable and do not go bad except, as he notes, the seals dry out and need replaced.

2. If you have to choose what to spend your money on, like Z says, have the injectors checked first, the spray pattern and pop-open value is really important to a smooth running tii.

3. Starting a regularly driven tii, turn the key son you can hear the pump run and when you hear it change tune, then start with the accelerator pedal slightly depressed. The change in tune means the system is pressurized.

4. If the pump has set for a bit, take out that big allen set screw thing, and put some oil in the pump. You can not "fill" it because once the pump has the oil it needs, it overflows back into the system.

5. Store a pump and injectors with Marvel Mystery Oil in it in a sealed plastic bag. Rotate the bag (pump and injectors) every time you change the oil in the car you regularly drive.

[BobBreed]

Wes is the man!! I send all of our Alfa Spica work to him.

[jgerry2002]

My tii started up in four cranks after sitting around for a year. I did not touch the pump at all and it has 171,000 on it. It was clean and dry for that time.

Rather than blaming the injection pump or even the fuel pump, another thing to consider is making sure your fuel system is 100% perfectly clean. Restrict the flow a little and you will reduce the fuel volume. A car that has sat for any period of time will probably have some rust and crud in the tank, which then collects in the various fuel filters (obvious engine bay one, the one on the pump, etc). Add all of these points where crud can collect and you could lose a substantial amount of fuel flow.

I had my gas tank "renu'd", replaced the injector lines, cleaned the injectors, replaced all the seals, and replaced all fuel line rubber. Despite the car being out of tune, the engine started right up, and with some slight tweaking it settled into a nice idle without any shaking or other odd behavior.

[ColinK]

Exactly. Remove the KF and send it/drop it off at Wes' in Burlingame. He's fairly reasonable in price, runs a clean shop and is good guy.

BTW, He's not the only KF vendor and there's other recommended by the FAQ.

Also, if you re-build your engine and elect to go w/ a different cam (I've got a 292) he can make the mods to get the a/f mix correct.

Good luck.

[SteveJ]

If it is a "hard to start" problem, also check the timer box and the cold start valve. With the valve unplugged, it can take several cranks on the starter for the motor to get enough fuel to start. With the valve connected and the timer box working, it takes only a second or two on the starter before it fires.

Also, also...when was the last valve adjustment?

Our K-fish has just over 250k on it. Never rebuilt as far as I know.

[Craig74tii]

I'm addicted to the whine the tii engine makes above 4000rpm. Every red light is another chance to hear that sound.

Craig74tii