0 231 115 072 JEUR4 dist????

[ptegler]

VERY bizarre .... had a dist center shaft snap/break right at the points plate!   Anyone have a spare old dist for a 2L M10 2L?  The dist does not have to be in working order.  Specific distributor model is not important as the adv and vac are not used. This setup is using and old Electromotive HPV-1 electronic ignition conversion.  I just need a decent center shaft so I can rebuild this dist.  HELP!
ptegler
 

[tech71]

I have  several, you are welcome to one for shipping + a slice of Pizza or $5 whichever is easier.

DM me

Edited April 28 by tech71

[visionaut]

FWIW

0 231 115 072 (a JFUR4 type)

 

The 115 072 was used in the 1600, 1600-2, 1600, 1600 Touring, 1602, and 1800

 

possible shaft donors:

 

115 072 was the first replacement for the 0 231 115 048 (JFUR4) used in the 1600, 1600-2, 1600, 1602, and 1800

 

Other JFUR4 or similar vintage JFR4/JFUD4 dizzys:

115 045, 129 026, 129 033, 180 004, 115 071, 115 081

 

 

[ptegler]

 

this is the beast needing the dizzy rebuild.  In the 'top down pic' note the dizzy gold disk on top.  That's an encased trigger wheel riding on the center shaft of the dizzy with no rotor mech adv weight plate atop the center shaft.  The 'box' floats on a bearing on that center shaft, with a flex plate to keep the box from rotating. ..weird setup... part of the old electromotive HPV-1 and coil pack you can see just behind the dist on the shelf.  A sensor enters the protruding edge, so is fixed to the rotating disk by the housing bearing.    So dist slop isn't really an issue for trigger accuracy (I guess -1 wierd point subtraction is in order )

 

hmmm... old fart here.... how do I 'dm' here?

 

Edited April 28 by ptegler

['76mintgrün'02]

18 minutes ago, ptegler said:

how do I 'dm' here?

 

If you drag the cursor over his avatar a window will pop up and down at the bottom there will be a message button.  Click that and you're off and running.

[ptegler]

👍

['76mintgrün'02]

59 minutes ago, ptegler said:

dist slop isn't really an issue for trigger accuracy

 

I don't quite understand how your setup works, but axial play in the shaft typically leads to timing fluctuation, due to the skewed drive gear. 

 

You may need a new fiber washer (or two) and some shim washers to reduce the axial play to .005" or so.  They're the same fiber washers that old VWs used and they're sold separately for $8 each.

[ptegler]

Just like a Pertronix module removing the points gap variations due to shaft/bearing slop, this HPV-1 setup captures the multi-tooth trigger wheel and sensor position variations by housing the sensor in a case, relatively positioned to the trigger wheel by the bearing in the box the shaft passes through. Shaft as dist body bearing play, moves both sensor and wheel together  (box is free to 'float' and does not rotate)

['76mintgrün'02]

I can see how that would remove point gap variations due to bearing slop, but not axial slop.

 

The play I am referring to enables the shaft to move up and down and that translates to rotational variation thanks to the skewed gear drive.  

 

That play is usually why the timing marks move around under the timing light.  Shimming the shaft makes the marks hold steady under the light. 

 

You'll be replacing the shaft and setting axial play is part of the process.  It'll be nice to have two distributors to take parts from.  The bottom fiber washer lasts longer than the upper one, so you could reuse a bottom as an upper if need be, but they get brittle with age and it might not last long.  I'd recommend ordering two new fiber washers to use when you put it back together.

 

There have been fiber washer discussions again lately, talking about how $8 each seems like a lot, since they were $1 each ten years ago.  $16 to refresh your shaft doesn't seem like a lot.

 

I've wondered if they were put on the shaft as padding, for the constant push/pull of the skewed gears.  

 

Does your setup attach the trigger wheel to the shaft with the center post removed?  If not, how is the center post rotation (timing advance) eliminated?

 

Is that whole box hanging off of/floating on the (puny) center post?  I can see how that'd stress/test the shaft.

 

Some of the shafts were beefier than others.  The one in the back of this photo is from a # 0 231 129 033 cast iron distributor and the one in front is from a # 0 231 151 008.

 

 

It'd be fun to see photos of your setup and the broken shaft.

Tom

Edited April 28 by '76mintgrün'02
( : it’s a 129 033 not 123 033 -- I stand corrected : )

['76mintgrün'02]

Slop/play in the bushings and other bits and pieces will lead to vibrations that add stress to the equations. 

 

The rotor has a counter weight opposite the pointy end to balance it.  The trigger wheel is balanced nicely, but if there is side to side bearing slop it'll be moving the 'floating' assembly around, which puts side loads on the shaft up top.

 

I'm just trying to figure out why it busted and what you might do to keep that from happening again.  You might be better off gutting/using a fresher body as part of the repair if the one you're using shows signs of wear.

[ptegler]

 sorry..double post... deleted here

 

Edited April 28 by ptegler
accidental double post of same message

[ptegler]

dist body is in good shape, as too do the bushes and bearing seem fine.
That 'top hat' wheel assy does indeed run on the end of the inner shaft. The toothed wheel just fits down over the last step on the end of the shaft and uses the original counter weight/rotor pedestal assy screw, to retain it. The base of the 'top had' has two bearings that fit that center shaft of the dist.
That 'hat' assy always wobbled a bit, which leads me to believe the inner shaft (above the points plate) was bend by the p.o.  Swinging the 'off-center' weight, well more so constantly tilting the 'hat' as the shaft rotated, was probably enough stress to snap the shaft.
....i'll go snap a pic of the end...but don't want to disassemble anything yet... want parts in hand, and need to look at the sync of the wheel position and how its timed to the crank before I go messing with it further  (try to dig up old HPV-1 instructions)

Although the bottom looks rusty, the bush/shaft there is clean, as well as is the break, probably right at the stress riser of the milling step to that smaller center shaft OD.
v/r

ptegler

[resra]

17 hours ago, ptegler said:

VERY bizarre .... had a dist center shaft snap/break right at the points plate!   Anyone have a spare old dist for a 2L M10 2L?  The dist does not have to be in working order.  Specific distributor model is not important as the adv and vac are not used. This setup is using and old Electromotive HPV-1 electronic ignition conversion.  I just need a decent center shaft so I can rebuild this dist.  HELP!
ptegler
 

Just saw this in the for sale forum for you. Seller is in CA but never had any issues buying parts from him. 

 

 

[ptegler]

Interesting trigger wheel design to boot. The 2.5" or so disk actually has TWO sets of missing teeth. Literally x2, 36-1, each encompassing 180° of the wheel. Makes sense, as it's half speed to the crank.

['76mintgrün'02]

That is a lot of weight up high for that little shaft.  Especially on top of a buzzy engine. 

 

I think "timed to the crank" went away as soon as it broke. 

 

The #164 is a late model distributor with a smaller shaft than his.  I think he needs a beefy-shaft for that setup.  I'd look for a cast iron model and put the crusty one to rest.

 

Having a screw at the end of the shaft is uncommon on our cars.  They usually use a keeper clip.  The #164 has a clip, not a screw.  the #002 sometimes has a screw and the #021 does too.  They're both thin shafted though.

 

There are a lot of variables involved.