123+ dizzy installed. Now hard to start

[Pablo M]

I installed the 123+ Bluetooth dizzy. Now it’s VERY hard to start. Like 20 cranks when cold. I exaggerate, but it’s a lot. 
started much easier before the 123. Once running it runs like before. If I turning off and restart it it starts quickly. If I let it sit for a little while it’s hard to start again. 
 

current situation:

-1972 2002tii

-new Kingsborne wires, new Bosch correct plugs, rebuilt head. 
-suspect a faulty voltage regulator as when running its not charging (red L light steady on). @Son of Marty diagnosed it as bad. Have one on order. Don’t know if related. 
 

Followed directions to set up custom settings for dizzy and “wrote” to dizzy. Blue light on and app connected. 
set up dizzy with these numbers (from research here):

500    6

800.   6

1000.  15

1500.  20

2000. 25

2500. 28

3000. 30

3500. 32

4000. 32

8000. 36

what could be causing hard starting? Where do I start? 

[Schnellvintage]

What voltage is at the coil when starting?  It could to be to low from a weak charged battery.  What coil are you using? Is the resister still being used in the circuit, while cranking?  Is the battery fully charged?  Might need more advance at stating.

 

 

Edited April 17 by Schnellvintage
Added info

[Stevenc22]

Pablo, the TII's use less advance down low. This is the curve on my 1972 tii

 

[Pablo M]

6 hours ago, Schnellvintage said:

What voltage is at the coil when starting?  It could to be to low from a weak charged battery.  What coil are you using? Is the resister still being used in the circuit, while cranking?  Is the battery fully charged?  Might need more advance at stating.

 

 

All good questions.  I'll check the voltage at the coil when I get back to the garage with an extra pair of hands. I'll post a photo of the coil. Its red and was in the car when I purchased the car 18 months ago. I have PO records to when new, possibly incomplete, and only mention of a coil being replaced is 1997. Not sure the resistor but I'll post a photo. 
Battery looks like it was replaced in 2013, but sat the entire time since it was replaced. I had battery recahrged and seems to hold a charge ok. Still showing 13.6v across battery posts when off. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Stevenc22 said:

Pablo, the TII's use less advance down low. This is the curve on my 1972 tii

 

Thanks for this. I thought I had gotten my numbers from someone also with a tii. Maybe it was a square tail tii? Dunno but I'll try your numbers and see what happens.  Thanks.

[Pablo M]

11 hours ago, Schnellvintage said:

What voltage is at the coil when starting?  It could to be to low from a weak charged battery.  What coil are you using? Is the resister still being used in the circuit, while cranking?  Is the battery fully charged?  Might need more advance at stating.

 

 

I attached the multimeter to the coil + and - while cranking and at the start of cranking it read 1.15, then went to 0.5. This was with the multimeter set to 20V. Same setting used to check the battery which was at 13.6 with ignition off. 
 

the coil:

Edited April 18 by Pablo M

[Hans]

Eleven year old battery that sat a lot. I'd be replacing that. Did you mean 12.6? I doubt it will hold a charge.

Edited April 18 by Hans
More

[Hans]

Did you set for Tdc?

[Son of Marty]

The connection on the green and red wire at the front of your resistor needs attention and your starter bypass relay has wires missing from it.

[Pablo M]

1 hour ago, Hans said:

Eleven year old battery that sat a lot. I'd be replacing that. Did you mean 12.6? I doubt it will hold a charge.

It’s working so far so I’ll not change it until it’s a problem. I’ve had to recharge it a few times due to constant attempts at starting it over the last year, as I’ve worked on it. 
correct, 13.6. Yesterday it was at 14 off, 13.6 when running. 

1 hour ago, Hans said:

Did you set for Tdc?

Yes. I set the engine to tdc by checking the cam gear alignment (removed the valve cover) and the old distributor rotor was at the #1 lead. 
Magen I installed the 123 I followed the instructions on setting it up and the green light was already on when I powered it up. I turned it slightly ccw and it went off right away. Came back on when I returned it to position. 
 

once running it sounds fine. It’s just cold start is worse now with 123. 
 

1 hour ago, Son of Marty said:

The connection on the green and red wire at the front of your resistor needs attention and your starter bypass relay has wires missing from it.

Yes but it was like that before and it ran fine. Still runs fine now once started. It’s starting it that is a problem. 

Edited April 18 by Pablo M

[Salamander]

Hi Pablo!  

 

I have a newish (2 mo old) battery you’re welcome to if you find yourself in MB. 

 

Sally

PS - fun to see you build nearing the finish line. 

Edited April 18 by Salamander
PS

[Chris_B]

Is your motor turning over more slowly than before? You might want to try 10 degrees advance at start.

[Pablo M]

6 minutes ago, Salamander said:

Hi Pablo!  

 

I have a newish (2 mo old) battery you’re welcome to if you find yourself in MB. 

 

Sally

PS - fun to see you build nearing the finish line. 

Well I can’t pass that up! I can come down and pick it up this week. I’ll message you about availability. If I can eliminate any variables it’ll help! 

2 minutes ago, Chris_B said:

Is your motor turning over more slowly than before? You might want to try 10 degrees advance at start.

Not turning over slowly. Turns over  as before, not too fast or slow. Turns over normally. It just won’t start. First handful of cranks (each about 5-10 seconds) seem like no fuel, just cranking. Then it starts to sound like it wants to fire. Then more and eventually starts. 
started easily before. Only change was dizzy. 

[Pablo M]

Now getting more frustrated. 
 

I think dizzy has default programming as I can’t confirm it’s got the original one I wrote. 
trying to change it and I can’t get it to write to the dizzy. 
not getting blue light (but can see green glow from inside so I know it’s got power). 
app shows it connected, both by green light on dashboard page and a check next to it on settings BUT, when these two are present the blue light is not. 
When I wire the dizzy directly to battery, pos to pos, neg to neg per 123 website, I get the blue light but app won’t connect-no green light on app dashboard, can’t find it in settings (endless spinning icon). 
I honestly am at a loss here. 

Edited April 18 by Pablo M
Spelling

[Hans]

So it started better before? Did we find out about the coil?

[Pablo M]

51 minutes ago, Hans said:

So it started better before? Did we find out about the coil?

Much better! It still took a bit to start when cold, but nothing like this. It currently takes forever. 

 

I have been chatting with both Sean at Blunttech and Ed at 123Ignition. Both of which were fantastic and gave me a few tips to try in the coming couple days.