A few early 2002, 1600 questions?...

[doober2002]

I have a few questions.

-when did the sun visors go from all white, to white and black?

-what would be the correct door mirror for a 70 2002? swan, trapazoid,flag?

-when did the front grilles go from all silver slats, to silver slats painted black, to silver slats with black anodized covers?

-when did the usage of the front hood trim that was embossed start and stop? Did the side hood trim from this same era have a different clip to mount?

-when was the rear panel round badge pressed thin aluminum, totally embossed?

-when did the round taillights go from red round centers, to orange?  

[TobyB]

1 early, before 1666365- I'll say with 1969 manufacturing dates, but I'll bet that's not precise enough

2 what month 1970?  The swans went away sometime April- ish?

3 what model?  2002s were painted in late 68, early1969, anodized in (early 70? late 69?)

4 earlier than I've ever seen

5 always cast, as far as I've seen

6 we don't know, as different markets seem to have gotten different colors.  US seems to have been model year 1970,

but things have been changed around enough that there are lots of opinions on this one.  There is a recent thread....

 

--note-- I will be wrong on most of the above.  I am curious to see HOW wrong...

 

t

 

[Mike Self]

To expand on Tony's reply...my comments are underlined...

 

1 early, before 1666365- my 40th second series 1969--1664801--Feb 69 mfg date has black & white visors, and I suspect all US spec 1600s/2002s-156/1660001-on-- have 'em 

2 what month 1970?  The swans went away sometime April- ish?--I don't think trapezoid mirrors appeared until 71 model year (that would be pre-modell 71 cars, but like those red center tail lights, swan neck mirrors were fragile, the silvering went bad quickly and trapezoid, then flag mirrors provided a lot better field of vision, and used the same mounting holes, so a lot of early cars ended up with later mirrors.

3 what model?  2002s were painted in late 68, early 1969, anodized in (early 70? late 69?)  I don't think the appliqued black anodized strips arrive until the 1970 model year

4 earlier than I've ever seen  Embossed hood front trim was used on some of the earliest US spec '68s but when the factory stopped, no one seems to know.  I think it was when they ran out of 'em on the assembly line. 

5 always cast, as far as I've seen  Yep, they all were on 1600s and 2002s. Cloisonne enamel badges were only used on the C pillars of CS coupes, and the smooth, plastic covered ones arrived with the E30. 

6 we don't know, as different markets seem to have gotten different colors.  US seems to have been model year 1970,  but things have been changed around enough that there are lots of opinions on this one.  There is a recent thread.... US cars only:  factory started fitting red center lenses to all US bound cars (1966 and 67) even before the US only versions arrived with the '68 model year.  All 68 and 69 cars had red center lenses AFAIK, although I know from experience that as early as October 1969 they were NLA from BMW (my '69's melted due to a stuck brake light switch, courtesy of the factory) and I had to accept amber center lenses as replacements.  So I suspect on many early cars they were replaced with amber center lenses due to non availability or simply to update the car's look.

[Zak]

1.      when did the sun visors go from all white, to white and black?

 

Both of my 68cars had the black & white variant. My early  67 car has all white. The 66-67 visor is also different in that the mounting clip is in a different location to accommodate the rod which protrudes out from the visor. This proved dangerous when deploying the visors to the side, as the protruding rod could poke you in the eye. That’s why they changed them for 68.

 

 

2.      what would be the correct door mirror for a 70 2002? swan, trapazoid,flag?

 

I believe it’s trapezoid. I have an early 1969 1600 which also came with a trapezoid mirror.

 

 

3.      when did the front grilles go from all silver slats, to silver slats painted black, to silver slats with black anodized covers?

 

The black slats were introduced first in 1967 for the 1600Ti. They were adopted for the 2002 when it was introduced in 1968.

 

 

4.      when did the usage of the front hood trim that was embossed start and stop? Did the side hood trim from this same era have a different clip to mount?

 

The embossed trim seems to have been used through model year 68. Most of the cars produced during the latter half of 68, which sold as model year 69 seem to have been outfitted with the smooth trim.

 

The clip mounts were round and a slightly larger diameter on 66-67 cars. And, the early trim from this era had smaller lips to accommodate the larger round clips. This trim doesn’t work with the later rectangular clips. But, the early larger diameter clips will work with the later trim with larger lips. It’s just a tight fit and takes a little more effort to fit the trim. The 66-67 clips and trim have been NLA for a long time.

 

 

5.      when was the rear panel round badge pressed thin aluminum, totally embossed?

 

All the ones I’ve seen are cast.

 

 

6.      when did the round taillights go from red round centers, to orange?

 

My early 69 has the red centers. The orange centers were introduced on US cars probably during the latter part of 69, on cars sold as model year 70. I think the orange centers were always used in Europe, even on the earliest 66 cars.

Edited February 14 by Zak

[bpeckm]

20 hours ago, Zak said:

 

6.      when did the round taillights go from red round centers, to orange?

 

My early 69 has the red centers. The orange centers were introduced on US cars probably during the latter part of 69, on cars sold as model year 70. I think the orange centers were always used in Europe, even on the earliest 66 cars.

Per my shamelessly-stolen pics of a 1967 from NL, for sale, indeed the orange centers were there

[mccusername]

My early ‘68 has one of each. Split the difference!
 

[Zak]

These are the earlier sun visors (66 - 67). I borrowed the pic from the FAQ. Danco should recognize it. They are all white, and the plastic fitting in which they sit is located in a different location at their tip. Notice the protruding rod which fits into the fitting. When you move the visor from its fitting and swivel it to partially cover the door glass you risk  poking your eye as it sits in that location (For God's sake, don't move the visor. You'll poke your eye out and end up looking like Tom Cruise acting as Claus Von Stauffenberg ).  I've been looking for an extra set of these visors. They are one of the things I didn't remove at the salvage yards when I had a chance 25-30 years ago.  

Edited February 15 by Zak

[Mike Self]

4 hours ago, bpeckm said:

Per my shamelessly-stolen pics of a 1967 from NL, for sale, indeed the orange centers were there

Only cars bound for the US (66 and 67 cars that didn't have US specific VINs, like '68 and later cars) and US spec 68 and 69 cars (156/166XXXX) came with red center lenses.  They were NLA very early (before the end of 1969) so if one was broken or damaged, all you could get from BMW was an amber center lens.  

 

2 hours ago, mccusername said:

My early ‘68 has one of each. Split the difference!

If your car is truly a 1600ti (and the Euro license plate holder and license plate lights would indicate that):  they were never imported to the US, so it would have had amber center lenses from the factory.

 

And I'm sure the change in the sun visor shape/mount was due to Federal safety laws that took effect in 1968--that also changed the rear view mirror mount to the breakaway style used from '68 on.

 

mike

[mccusername]

2 minutes ago, Mike Self said:

If your car is truly a 1600ti

Truly a 1600Ti but imported into Canada. I assume Euro spec in general— but did come with a MPH Speedo. 

[Zak]

5 minutes ago, Mike Self said:

Only cars bound for the US (66 and 67 cars that didn't have US specific VINs, like '68 and later cars) and US spec 68 and 69 cars (156/166XXXX) came with red center lenses.  They were NLA very early (before the end of 1969) so if one was broken or damaged, all you could get from BMW was an amber center lens.  

Thanks Mike. I learned that from you. The red center lens on the early US bound cars is the only US specific feature which I like.

 

[jgerock]

6 hours ago, Zak said:

Thanks Mike. I learned that from you. The red center lens on the early US bound cars is the only US specific feature which I like.

 

In my opinion, the red center lenses are harder to see from the drivers following, especially when the lights are on.  Make sure to activate the turn signals well in advance of any lane or directional changes.

[Mike Self]

5 hours ago, jgerock said:

In my opinion, the red center lenses are harder to see from the drivers following, especially when the lights are on.  

You're absolutely correct, Jim.  Those red lenses absorb much more light than the amber ones, warranting the brightest LED bulbs you can find to install there. 

 

But after my original red ones melted after only 6 months of ownership (factory defect) and were replaced with amber ones because the red ones were NLA, it took me nearly 30 years to find another pair of red center lenses (thanks, Carl Nelson!).  This was long before Uro started reproducing 'em...

 

mike

[Bassie81]

My 68 2002 vin 1612xxxhas:

- black embossed trim front

- non original ugly mirrors ( trying to source a swan style)

- all white sun visors, no metal pins sticking out

- embossed rear trim, but not black (yet)

- orange centered taillights (as do all eu spec cars)

Edited February 15 by Bassie81

[doober2002]

Thanks for everyone's comments, much appreciated!