Magic in the Oil Pan

[2002#3]

I might/might not install an oil pan baffle in the new M10 build.  Probably not b/c it likely will not help much with only occasional spirited or autoX driving.  

 

The abused/altered baffle I have angles down and sits low in the fore end of the pan (photo 1) whereas a new/non-abused baffle likely will sit up and be parallel with the pan flange (photo 2).  In both cases, the fore end of the baffle will touch the fore end of the pan and be secured there.

 

I present what is probably a stupid question...  

 

QUESTIONS:  Does the baffle have to be parallel with the flange like most are?  Anything magic about that?

 

Your likely ANSWER:  "Angle it all you want.  It's still going to be relatively useless."

 

 

[tzei]

More oil under baffle plate the better. Is it useless? No. Does that desing do it’s job? Maybe.

 

Your bearing don’t mind if spirited driving is occasinational or not. If they starv they’ll be hurt.

[Dudeland]

In the FWIW category, put on a windage tray.  I noticed a bit of difference at high revs.

 

Oil Pan Windage Tray – M10 – Ireland Engineering | Racing & Performance Parts for BMW & MINI

WWW.IEMOTORSPORT.COM

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Each

 

 

 

 

[Cabbage Fumes]

One thing to consider for you peoples out there that think deeply.

Picture the rotation of the crank. It pushes up against the exhaust side of the block, up underneath the pistons, etc. The drain-back from the head is in direct head-on collision of swishing oil where it enters the crankcase. Turbulence. It doesn't make a smooth return to the pan in a high rpm environment. A guy I race with did something that I thought was a little weird, but actually kind of smart. He blocked off the galley that returns the oil from the upper casting from the head to the pan, and ran a fitting outside of the block, with hardline that goes down to the pan into a chamber that surrounds the oil pump pickup. No need for a windage plate. Never starves for oil.

Sometimes it becomes very obvious the M10 was not meant for racing, but it can me made to be.

[Son of Marty]

That's good but doesn't eliminate the need for a scraper or windage tray the crank picks up a "rope" of oil from the pan and spins it around the crank causing drag which is the reason people knife edge there cranks.

[Cabbage Fumes]

14 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

 ...and spins it around the crank causing drag which is the reason people knife edge there cranks.

The modern idea of what "knife edging" is has destroyed more engines than improved them. Regardless of what people try to tell you, removing all of the counterweighting from a crank is a horrible idea, but that's a discussion for another day.

[Ian]

Another option for a windage tray (crank scraper) is:  crank-scrapers.com.  I have one of their crank scrapers to install on my S14, and it is really well made and they are very responsive for tech support.

[NickVyse]

47 minutes ago, Ian said:

Another option for a windage tray (crank scraper) is:  crank-scrapers.com.  I have one of their crank scrapers to install on my S14, and it is really well made and they are very responsive for tech support.

 

did you bother with their teflon version Ian?

[kbmb02]

8 hours ago, Furry Camel said:

The modern idea of what "knife edging" is has destroyed more engines than improved them. Regardless of what people try to tell you, removing all of the counterweighting from a crank is a horrible idea, but that's a discussion for another day.

 

When that discussion happens, I've got some evidence to suggest it's not a horrible idea. -KB

[tzei]

My 2nd latest iteration of the wet sump. 

[Ian]

3 hours ago, NickVyse said:

 

did you bother with their teflon version Ian?

Yes, I went with the teflon.

[Dudeland]

Ireland says to check the clearance. I didn't and rolled the dice,  so far so good...

 

[TobyB]

I use a baffle as above, as in #3's picture.  It's been a while, but I do remember it wasn't level.

 

It's a very good idea, if you're planning on turning left.  It doesn't solve  the problem, but

it does mitigate it enough that pressure will only now drop in LONG hard left sweepers,

and there aren't that many of those, Pacific Raceway and NASCAR mile tracks excepted.

 

Yes, the head oil return down the side of the block doesn't work well in left- handers.

There are a lot of ways to manage that, but a well- placed hole in the windage tray,

combined with an oil 'guide' has done well enough for me.  This didn't show up until

WELL into the 'I might be kinda serious about it' phase.  So for a street/ autocross car,

more immediate supply solutions (like a good baffle) will be plenty.

It's the sustained revs that matter.  If they drop, even occasionally, the oil obeys gravity again.

 

And completely removing the counterweights IS nuts. 

I suppose there's some value to tapering them,

and CERTAINLY in rebalancing the crank if you're far enough along to be looking

at piston/conrod weights and harmonic peaks- there are a few peaks that would tear

apart a merely mortal engine...

...but the M10 is truly massive.  

 

t

runs a pretty primitive- looking baffle.

[Cabbage Fumes]

6 hours ago, kbmb02 said:

 

When that discussion happens, I've got some evidence to suggest it's not a horrible idea. -KB

If you think that your evidence is strong enough to contradict the experience of David Eden, owner of Marine Crankshaft, who knows more about the science of balance of the importance of not "knife edging" than I garantee you will ever know, feel free to present that. I'll go with the science, thanks.

[kbmb02]

4 hours ago, Furry Camel said:

If you think that your evidence is strong enough to contradict the experience of David Eden, owner of Marine Crankshaft, who knows more about the science of balance of the importance of not "knife edging" than I garantee you will ever know, feel free to present that. I'll go with the science, thanks.

 

I’ve spoken with David; he’s done work for me.

 

- - - 

 

I’ve never met someone who knows everything, and often experts disagree. Learning how to listen, understand, and interpret the science, opinions, experiences, and sales pitches of others - be they builders, machinists, engineers, vendors, retirees, or keyboard know-it-alls - is an adventure.

 

I combine that knowledge-base with my own experience, which is having built a decent number of long-lived M10 race engines - most with lightened cranks, some with pounds of counterweights removed, some knife edged.

 

My method works for me, with (mostly) favorable results and outcomes. -KB