Green plastic clips vs. Velcro vs. ??

[Marsattacks]

This topic has been discussed before.  But not recently (I don’t think).  I have very nice new door cards from Aardvark.  They are very nice.  But the green BMW door clips drive me insane.  Here are some musings on Aardvark door cards and door clips and installation.

 

1.  Don’t expect Aardvark cards to be plug and play.  The door cards are awesome, but a little bit of fiddling is required.  In particular I think it is best to skive the top of the Aardvark panels and also to clear out any excess door covering from the top of the door.  This lets the card fully seat on the door.  Otherwise, it can sit a bit tall, which is not just visually unappealing it also will cause all sorts of other problems.  For example, your vent windows are intolerant of poorly seated door cards.  It is also best to cut out the excess foam that wraps around the door.  All of this is to get your new door card to fit as close as possible against the door, without too much barrier from the door card or covering.

 

2.  The Aardvark clip holes required some shaping.  No big deal.  Easily done with an Xacto knife.  Trouble is, that can move the center a little bit off the original center, meaning that your door clips might not go home precisely.

 

3.  The real problem is the door clips.  This has nothing to do with Aardvark.  In my view, they are junk.  They sometimes crack when you press them into the card (even with a clip installation tool).   They crack and break when they don’t line up perfectly with the door card holes.  They crack and break when you try to remove the card.  When they crack even just a little bit, they lose their will to hold the card against the door.  What is worse, they tenaciously stay put in the door card.  So what you have is a  clip that won’t hold the card but also won’t readily exit the door.  Oh, they are seriously sensitive to a little bit of increased dimension between the card and the door.  Such as high quality door panel vinyl that wraps around the edge.  Or soundproofing.  This can be remedied by trimming and skiving etc.

 

4.  What will never be fixed is that the green clips will self destruct 70% of the time when you attempt to remove the card.  So they are basically single-use brittle items. The clips also will seriously slice your finger if you aren’t careful.  Basically, they suck.

 

5.  I am experimenting with Velcro.  This has been used by other illustrious members.  I like it.  You can get it in a very thin forma that does not cause the card to sit proud.  It adheres (if you buy the peel and stick version) quite well to both the card and the door.  It tolerates a mismatch in door card holes and door holes (note, however, that a mismatch can be a signal that your card is not seated properly in the door — not pressed down adequately).

 

6.  I see no down-side to Velcro unless you have a 100 point concours vehicle.  It keeps the card nice and flat.  It allows for some play in the card.  It should not self-destruct when you need to remove the card in 9 months for some other reason.

 

7. I considered double sided tape but that runs you into the same single-use problem and potentially worse because that stuff can be tenacious too.

 

8.  Maybe there are some better green clips (or similar) these days and if there are I would consider them.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Marsattacks

[Son of Marty]

I think velcro would do a great job, the only draw back is the door panel would have a bit of standoff from the door, but you would really have to look with the door open, so IMO it would be OK.

[Mike Self]

If you replace the clips with Velcro, besides replacing the acella cloth (plastic sheet glued to the inside of the door, under the upholstery card), be sure and tape over all the holes where the clips went.

 

I had a persistent wet spot on the driver's floor, next to the sill, every time it rained.  Finally traced it to a tiny opening where the window regulator's crank handle base poked through the door and upholstery card.  Water running down inside the door was leaking through that little opening.  A thumbnail-sized piece of strip caulk solved a 10+ year problem.  So it doesn't take much of a hole in the door's inner panel to let water into your car.

 

mike

[esty]

i velcro'd the panels on my 76 in 2005 and they are still hanging in there and easy to remove

 

the panels don't stand out anymore than they did with the clips

 

[Kronos]

I had similar problems with the door cards of my Land Rover Defender, used magnets instead of the stupid clips, problems solved. Just an idea.

[TobyB]

Quote

  In my view, they are junk.  They sometimes crack when you press them into the card (even with a clip installation tool).   They crack and break when they don’t line up perfectly with the door card holes.  They crack and break when you try to remove the card.  When they crack even just a little bit, they lose their will to hold the card against the door.  What is worse, they tenaciously stay put in the door card.  So what you have is a  clip that won’t hold the card but also won’t readily exit the door

 

 

You have just described every door BMW has ever assembled.  

With the exception of the ti, which adds towers that fall off,

and inset panels that delaminate from the card itself.

 

It's the German automotive equivalent of the hair shirt.

 

Ford uses similar clips- but they pop out easier, are trivial to replace

when they break, and actually hold the door together.

(now, on the Ford, all the screws fall out, but that's Ford's hair shirt)

 

On the beaters, I take some Ford screws and run them right into the door,

through the card.

 

On the nicer car, I have used Ford fasteners- but, since BMW didn't think to

design for an intelligent clips, the panels stand just a little proud.

 

t

never thought of velcro.  Might be a bit of a challenge with the vapor barrier,

but otherwise...

[Marsattacks]

Thanks guys.  Good info.  I like the magnet idea but now that I’m half way in  I’m going to go all the way with Velcro for now.  Seems to be holding well on the one side.  

[Tdh]

I’ve done Velcro on several other cars (not 2002’s) with good results.  If you run thin strips just inside and next to where the vinyl wraps around the door card it won’t sit noticeable proud.  I did Velcro on a tr6 that got abused by its owner (top left down all the time in rain, sun, humid, dry all types of weather).  The Velcro stood up to his abuse.  
 

since it was brought up, you should always replace the plastic over the openings in the door.   I get that people toss around “marine grade” plywood when talking about the Aardvark panels, but….  “Marine grade” plywood doesn’t mean the panel is water proof or even water resistant.  What it does mean is the face and back veneers have few/no defects (think knots) where water can compromise the glue line and accelerate localized delamination or total glue line failure.  A “marine” grade panel is just as susceptible as other grades of plywood to changes in moisture content (warping/buckling/twisting) so omitting the plastic can cause you trouble.  
 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Tdh

[carlkkreienkamp]

Just a minor tweek of TDH's description of "marine grade" plywood: is grade A on at least one side, free of voids,  but also and more importantly bonded with water-proof glue as is regular exterior grade plywood.

[Son of Marty]

Even if you sealed the plywood it would not keep the water completely in the door cavity the way plastic does and any water that gets to the outer side of the door inner skin will leak on your carpet.

[Tdh]

@carlkkreienkamp,

 

not necessarily always an A face..  There’s a B-B (B face B back) marine grade recognized by APA that would allow for knots that would telegraph through vinyl if you glued upholstery to it.  Also, even though “exterior grade” gets thrown around (even by APA and TICO) it’s a misnomer.  In reality, there are glue bond durability ratings (exterior or exposure 1) for structural panels that determine the appropriate application.  Those designations are driven by the defects allowed within a particular grade of plywood (example:  A/C panels typically carry an exterior glue bond durability rating, C/D panels typically carry an Exposure 1 rating).  
 

In my opinion, (and I didn’t bring this up before just because) Aardvark really doesn’t need to spend the extra bucks on Marine grade panels.  A yellow pine, radiata pine or fir  A/C panel would work just as well, and be cheaper.  Hell, a cheap luaun would work fine too.  My guess is Aardvark has been told by his local supplier that a Fir marine grade (all marine grade is fir or larch) is more stable and a better option.  I’ve dealt with thousands of plywood defect claims, and in the door panel application I see no advantage to using marine grade plywood.  
 
And with that, I’ll express a hardy “I’m sorry” to the group for nerding out so hard?

Edited October 28, 2021 by Tdh