How to spot a changed VIN

[S00S odrut]

 

I don't know how acceptable is a chassis number change in your countries but here it is strictly illegal. I don't think that the car was stolen or something, but I'm not sure a can risk it. I might have problems passing the inspection or legal problems in case of an accident. In addition, if I was able to spot the change having zero experiance, anyone can spot it and I might not be able to sell it if I need to in the future (which is not my goal but you never know).

 

I could feel that the sheet metal wasn't smooth and by watching the photo it is obvious that the surface is not leveled and looks like it has been cut just around the number.

To describe it better, what you see there is like a step. Is this normal or not?

 

 

 

[Henning]

2 hours ago, S00S odrut said:

 

Ok now. Let's investigate.

What we see is the lower outer edge of the inner fender. Follow it from far left to far right in the pic and you will see kinks, steps or bumpinesses. Some bondo on the left where bondo is never needed.

The lower half of the picture is filled by the vertical reinforcement part; #8 here:

http://ills.bmwfans.info/lkd.pnghttp://ills.bmwfans.info/lkd.png

In the right half of the pic there is a kind of window in the reinforcement, slightly longer than the VIN, where the VIN could bee seen from below -if decipherable. These windows appeared in late '69 when the inner fenders switched from longwise to crosswise sinews due to crumple zones. '68s don't have these. The reinforcements switched their shape, too.

Back to your picture there seems to be a fat welding cherry in that certain window I've never seen before:

 

I really don't want to pull the plug on your party but my guess is: this VIN has been swapped.

 

hen

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Henning

[conkitchen]

Ugh,

potential buyers like this soos odrut are likely the type who after a year or more still call the previous owner(s) to ask questions and hold them accountable for their failed expectations.   Such a culture of fear around spending money on beat up old used cars. This car is priced cheap and thus your risk assumption is reflected in that value.  

 

Buy or buy not, there is no warranty the outside adult world is not a Walmart return counter. 

SOLD AS-IS it's 50 years old. 

Buyer beware means own it if you dive head first into the abyss.  

 

Now I'm gonna go deep into the red zone and say this purchase is very likely being perpetuated by a Millennial. 

 

There will not be any participant trophies given at todays event.  

[Lorin]

24 minutes ago, S00S odrut said:

 

 

To describe it better, what you see there is like a step. Is this normal or not?

 

 

 

Did you even look at my picture? 

[S00S odrut]

19 minutes ago, conkitchen said:

Ugh,

potential buyers like this soos odrut are likely the type who after a year or more still call the previous owner(s) to ask questions and hold them accountable for their failed expectations.   Such a culture of fear around spending money on beat up old used cars. This car is priced cheap and thus your risk assumption is reflected in that value.

 

I can take the risk and buy something that needs more repairs than I expected but I can't take the risk of the car being seized or be unsellable (might sound extreme but as I said I don't have the experiance and I need to protect myself). I'm accountable for my choice so I have to be sure it is correct.

The owner sells the car as it is and I want to buy it if the chassis number is not changed. That's why I'm asking people with more experience for their point of view. If the number appears to be changed then I just don't buy it.

[S00S odrut]

21 minutes ago, Lorin said:

Did you even look at my picture? 

Yes but I'm still trying to figure out what I see because it looks different.

[S00S odrut]

1 hour ago, Lorin said:

Here is a photo of my ‘68 from the same angle yours is taken from. It’s still hard for me to see what’s going on in your picture. Is there a lot of rust on the car ?

 

 

Now I get it. So the edge of the lower sheet was cut right under the chassis number. That speaks for itselft.

[2002iii]

I would never buy a car with a questionable history/ I.D. #, I've heard horror stories of people investing lots of money in a car only to find out its stolen and have it seized.

 

If the rest of the underbody is as crusty and has more horrible goober welds like the one in the picture, its going to need a lot of work.

 

You are usually better off buying a car that is in the best condition you can afford, rather then buying a cheaper one and spending lots of time and money fixing things only to realize it took more money to fix then it's worth.

[Lorin]

42 minutes ago, S00S odrut said:

Now I get it. So the edge of the lower sheet was cut right under the chassis number. That speaks for itselft.

Which would be completely unnecessary to remove the VIN area which is why I asked about rust. 
 

Another possibility to consider is accident damage. I have a buddy that crashed his 70’s bmw and the inner fender required replacement. He went back and forth regarding the VIN stamping since the new inner fender was obviously blank. He ended up having the body shop graft in the VIN section to the new panel before installing it.  
 

His car is not VIN swapped as far as I am concerned. 

 

 

[S00S odrut]

20 minutes ago, Lorin said:

Which would be completely unnecessary to remove the VIN area which is why I asked about rust. 
 

Another possibility to consider is accident damage. I have a buddy that crashed his 70’s bmw and the inner fender required replacement. He went back and forth regarding the VIN stamping since the new inner fender was obviously blank. He ended up having the body shop graft in the VIN section to the new panel before installing it.  
 

His car is not VIN swapped as far as I am concerned. 

 

 

It only had some surface rust which occured after the car was repainted. Whatever happened to the vin was before the repaint but I don't know if it was rusty before that.

Even if it was cut to replace the fender and put it back, the edit is still visible and can cause the problems I mentioned before unfortunately.

I see no other reason for (what it looks like and correct me if I'm wrong) a straight rectangular cut right under the number, other than to 'edit' it.

[Lorin]

I think most would agree that the VIN probably did not start life on that particular inner fender. 
 

Options:

1) buy the car. 
 

2) don’t buy the car.

 

2a) post more about it but don’t buy the car. 

 

[S00S odrut]

I don't expect from anyone to tell me BUY IT or DON'T BUY IT. I just wanted to read some opinions from people that know better than me and then decide.

 

I also want to thank everyone for your answers and help.

[Conserv]

5 hours ago, Lorin said:

Here is a photo of my ‘68 from the same angle yours is taken from. It’s still hard for me to see what’s going on in your picture. Is there a lot of rust on the car ?

 

 

Assuming that Lorin’s view re-creates your photo’s perspective, the part you’d be primarily concerned about, the inner fender’s top flange (red rectangle on my ‘76 below), doesn’t look cut or patched. But the outside panel of the inner fender (yellow rectangle on my ‘76 below) and the fender look like a bit of a “hot mess”: you’ve got rust, bondo, and thick bad paint.

 

As Nick (@NYNick) suggests, the greater challenge here appears to be issues other than the VIN.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

[TobyB]

Quote

I could feel that the sheet metal wasn't smooth 

 

It's been cut and welded, then.  And that strongly suggests swapping.

It's continuous from the factory.

 

It's true- in the western States, nobody gives a rat's ass as long as there's no obvious problems.

 

New York State cares a LOT more- but then, those with the least trust are often the least trusting.

 

And like my bent and salvaged 318i, if you're not comfortable with it,

don't do it.  There are enough shitty things falling out of the sky randomly.

Why add to the list of possible droppings?

 

t

It's all personal, it's all relative

(can I has 777 engine?  Will swap into E36 with salvage title!)