1975 2002Tii Seat upholstery help

[wilfredski]

I'm looking to replace my front seat upholstery with original vinyl from world upholstery but I'm confused by the vintage. All seats including the rear bench seem to indicate a vintage of 1969 - 1973. I've checked the VIN and it's a 6/1975 built 2002Tii. Is it possible that Australian (or European) spec models had different upholstery vintages? Or is it possible a previous owner replaced all interior seats in including the rear and backrest? Maybe even the door panels too? Appreciate any help I can get. Thanks in advance.

 

[Son of Marty]

I'm not sure on euro models but a 74 in the states would have these seats and they were one year only

 

 

and these should be 75's

 

 

 

[SydneyTii]

41 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

I'm not sure on euro models but a 74 in the states would have these seats and they were one year only

 

 

and these should be 75's

 

 

 

Yes my 74 has those seats, have you checked when your car was made?

It might be a 73 that was delivered in 74?

[wilfredski]

Thanks Guys. I've checked my VIN etched into the chassis (which matches the engine number) using bimmercat.com and it confirms a June 1975 2002Tii.

 

SydneyTii, do your door panels look anything like mine? 

[esty]

your car also has early door panels...

 

[SydneyTii]

4 hours ago, wilfredski said:

Thanks Guys. I've checked my VIN etched into the chassis (which matches the engine number) using bimmercat.com and it confirms a June 1975 2002Tii.

 

SydneyTii, do your door panels look anything like mine? 

No mine do not have the larger chrome bit at the top.

[Conserv]

Agreeing with Son of Marty and esty!

 

The front seats currently in your car were manufactured in 1969 through 1971. Why? The vinyl has flat-bottom heat seams between pleats, each heat seam having a single row of faux-stitching molded in. See my first photo below. This style of vinyl was used from 1966 through approximately the end of 1971. Headrests, however, appeared in 1969, or very shortly before 1969. Chromed seat recliners survived on U.S.-spec tii’s until the end of the 1972 model year (August 1972), but started being phased out on Euro-spec cars during the 1971 model year. If we look for the convergence among these three telltales, we get a 1969 through 1971 date for your front seats. There are likely date-stamped tags under or, especially, in the backrests of your seats, provided the horsehair pads have not been replaced or the seats heavily re-worked. My second and third photos below show such a tag in context, and in detail, and dating that particular seat to June 20, 1972 (“20. 6. 72”).

 

I’d guess the rear seat in your car came from the same source. The backrest appears to have minimal sculpting, which might place the date prior to April 1971, when rear seat backrests got an extra bit of “bucket” sculpting. So the rear seat is definitely 1966 through late 1971, but I’m leaning toward a pre-April 1971 date. The rear seats, however, rarely have dated tags.

 

The door cards, as noted above, are round taillight items, so pre-August 1973. The might have had the same source as the seats.

 

I’d guess that most 1975 tii’s — the U.S. did not get any 1975 tii’s due to increased emissions standards — had 1975-76 style seats. I say this, particularly, because many of the last U.S.-spec 1974 tii’s manufactured, those built in December 1974, had the 1975-76 style seats, despite being sold as “1974” models. These seats are distinguished by narrow-set headrest supports, real “bucketing”, and were actually designed for the e21 cars, introduced in spring 1975. My fourth and fifth photos below show my ‘76, which has 1975-76 style seats and square taillight (1974-76) door cards. These are the seats and door cards with which your car was originally equipped.
 

So, yes, your car’s interior has been swapped, not at all unusual over the course of 45 years.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[Conserv]

1975-76 style seat covers, from World Upholstery or GAHH, will not fit on your earlier frames, both the frames and the horsehair pads are shaped differently, not to mention the change of headrest supports. Well, they won’t fit well!
 

Perhaps 1974-style covers will fit better. But late 1973 and all 1974 seats have “eared” headrests, while your seats have the earlier “tube” shape.

 

1969 though 1973 seat covers should fit your seats. The change in vinyl in late 1971 did not signify a change in the frames or the horsehair pads.

 

You need to decide how original you’d like your car to be. If you’re returning it to it’s 1975 appearance, you’ll need different seat frames.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[Mike Self]

A possible explanation as to why your '75 car has a complete early interior:

 

The upholstery BMW used on roundies was made from nearly indestructible vinyl; it simply doesn't wear out, but is prone to split along the faux stitched seams(witness your driver's seat).  In contrast the squarelights' vinyl--and its underlying horsehair padding--was flimsy and disintegrated in a relatively short time--especially in hot, sunny climes.  

 

Thus I suspect a previous owner, faced with extensive reupholstering, found a roundie parts car and grabbed the entire interior--door panels and all--and installed 'em on his '75.  

 

mike

[wilfredski]

Really appreciating the experts on this forum. Thank you. Certainly seems like a previous owner might have done a swap of much of the interior at some stage. Heck of a project! I've attached more pics which I believe show parts of the dash and gear stick mounting are from the late 60s era too (maybe not instrument cluster, or clock? Aftermarket steering wheel I presume?). Seems almost unbelievable how much might have been swapped.

 

I've included a pic of the engine bay to see if the experts here can pick if anything else is odd. Like I said, the chassis and engine numbers check out. It's certainly a Tii engine and other elements seem to verify it is a Tii chassis too. Like the boxed in rear suspension and two mounts for the air filter. But I'm certainly no expert on this.

 

On the plus side, I really do like the older vintage interior and seats with the chrome so not sure if I'd go to the effort to swap it out even if I could source and afford all the bits! Just need to work out my objective with a restoration I guess. Thoughts?

[Son of Marty]

Well the wood dash surround and cross hatched gauges are from a square light, the wheel is after market one looks like a personal to me but I could be wrong.

[wilfredski]

[Mike Self]

From your engine room pictures:  the nose has been replaced, as it has a snorkel (air intake for carbureted models) that a tii wouldn't have had, and the washer bottle is aftermarket; originals were round. 

 

Inside, the console is a short one from the pre-modell '71 car, as is that round shift boot.  Suspect they came from the same car that donated its seats and door panels as they're the same vintage.  That appears to be a three-piece dash, also from an early roundie; a '75 would have had a one-piece dash with no chrome trim.  And...amusingly, there's a manual choke knob on the left side of the steering column surround--which I'll bet is metal--yet another transplant from an earlier car, as squarelights had plastic lower steering column surrounds, and no choke knob.

 

mike

[wilfredski]

That's helpful. So it sounds like a reasonably consistent donor vintage across the board. I was told the white plastic button on the side of the steering column is some sort of injector that assists with the start by squirting extra fuel into the engine. Seems to do the job however it works.

 

Interestingly my 2002 restorer's guide mentions the air snorkel hole and an apparent long running debate around whether BMW actually originally produced some Tii's with that nose section from factory. Apparently they might have used the parts interchangeably depending on stock levels or markets... or so the theory goes. Although as you say Mike Self in this case it's highly likely a replacement given the rest of my car!

 

Maybe it's best not to fight the "retro" interior and maybe just restore what I have... could avoid going down a rabbit hole with parts availability as it is. 

 

BTW, does anyone know where I could find a replacement for my unusual RHD accelerator pedal?

 

 

[Conserv]

22 minutes ago, Mike Self said:

... Inside, the console is a short one from the pre-modell '71 car, as is that round shift boot.  Suspect they came from the same car that donated its seats and door panels as they're the same vintage.  That appears to be a three-piece dash, also from an early roundie...

 

+1

 

And since I believe your seats are, most likely, pre-April 1971 — the introduction of an upgrade referred to as the Modell 71 — I’m guessing that your three-piece, chrome-trimmed dashboard (used in Euro-spec cars until April 1971) might have even come from the same donor as the seats and door cards and console.

 

To be honest, apart from the dashboard, the swapping of seats and door cards can be done in a single Saturday afternoon! Thus, many ‘02’s have partially or wholly swapped interiors.

 

Good looking car! Have you confirmed the specific manufacturing date and exterior color with BMW Group Archives? Just email the VIN to Archives and request their data. There is no charge. Their email address is: info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com.

 

Regards,

 

Steve