Electric 02 on Vintage Voltage

[jrhone]

Not sure if this has been here...but I just saw a 1602 being done on Vintage Voltage.  If you haven't seen this show its a shop that takes old European cars and restores them with electric motors.  They are doing a 1602 with Rabbit arches. Watching it now.  They have done a Karman Ghia, Porsche Speedster, Fiat 500 MG Midget and a Ferrari 308 as well.  Pretty cool show.  For those thinking about electric power in an 02...here it is.  Show os in MotorTrend.

 

 

 

[Squid's 02]

Thanks for the heads up.

[theNomad]

Watched it. He certainly spent all the $$.

I didn't catch the weight of the motor that went in the front, but the 350lb battery pack took up the front bay and looked to be mostly in front of the front axle. Seems like that'll kill the handling (but of course it's not the point of the build.) 

Another pack in the rear between the arches was a better location. It's certainly hard to locate that much weight between the axles and low. 

Either way, it looks nice, fairly stock interior and exterior and electric 150 mile range.

At least it's better looking than a Volt...

 

[TobyB]

did not enter email, ssn and bank account info, did not get hot Persian Prince in my bed,  so did not see video.

 

350 lbs is about what a wet engine weighs, so there's that.

 

When I did the numbers with lead- acid, I came up with about #600 of batteries, but could get

the distribution to 50-50 by putting the motor and trans in the back seat.    But range was about half that.

 

Now, I'd steal a Tesla Long Range and strip it...

 

 

t

[theNomad]

Yeah, but the weight seemed mostly in front of the axle and then there was a big motor as well as the stock trans in place. More batteries in the back. I understand there are always trade offs. The nice thing is that it remained stock externally and on the interior. There looked to be space for another 150lb or so of batteries in the trunk if he wanted more range. 

 

I'd assume about 3x the price of a decent tii and probably twice the price of a basic Tesla?

Personally I'll drive my 'dirty gasser' at a far lower impact from mine to garage of all those new lithium batteries etc. Now if it were made from recycled Teslas...

[theNomad]

3 hours ago, TobyB said:

did not enter email, ssn and bank account info, did not get hot Persian Prince in my bed,  so did not see video.

 

350 lbs is about what a wet engine weighs, so there's that.

 

When I did the numbers with lead- acid, I came up with about #600 of batteries, but could get

the distribution to 50-50 by putting the motor and trans in the back seat.    But range was about half that.

 

Now, I'd steal a Tesla Long Range and strip it...

 

 

t

How much of a trans does it actually need? I thought many are direct drive now?

[jrhone]

53 minutes ago, theNomad said:

How much of a trans does it actually need? I thought many are direct drive now?

 

In a different episode they broke down a few systems.  They have the Tesla motors with the direct drive built in and thats alot more cash...They put that in a Ferrari and the conversion including restoring the Ferrari was 60K pounds...so maybe 30-40k sounds for the motor and batteries.  Then they had another system that was an electric motor that they married to the existing transmission.  This one gives about 170-200 hp and about 150 miles range and is about 15k pounds in parts.  Not too bad at all.  Thats the system they put in the 02.  Interesting show...in other episodes they actually show the finished car driving and they do shakedowns, road tests and actually give you 0-60 times and performance specs.  My guess is they actually didnt finish the 02 for one reason or another as it ended very abruptly without the running and shakedown.  

[Geoff Raynak]

That is for sure a super sweet car ...

just enough mod/flare to make the casual observer think that maybe there is something special going on!

and that red interior is off the charts!

 

@jrhone:

not sure where those motor numbers come from

in some cases folks have done some hand-waving to say it 'feel like' a combustion engine with XXX HP ... but it really only produces YYY HP.

I don't think ElectricClassicCars plays those games ...

 

In any case ... the real values are:

Netgain:

173 ftlb up to 3500 rpm and 125hp @ 4800 rpm for the Hyper9

165 ftlb up to 3500 rpm and 118hp @ 4800 rpm for the Hyper9HV

Neither really get close to 180hp ... 

 

 

Moment has done two different '02 builds 

both with HPEVS AC35X2 144v systems

the HPEVS AC 35X2 is 180 ftlb up to 4800rpm and 165hp @ 4800 rpm 

 

the Verona car has a 4s and a 2.93 E30 LDS via @Ken 2002 underground swap

the Colorado car has a 'traditional' 5-speed and a 3.64 open diff

maybe someday a customer will want Moment to fit their dual Hyper 9 in an 02 ... 350 ftlb and 250 hp ... that could be fun.

 

And there are two active '02 builds/builders here on the FAQ.

 

@rceldib is going with a Tesla rear-end swap with electric GT ... which is going to be quite an engineering effort/feat.

@WisDesign is going with a super-sweet Parker and 400v system ... and I think keeping the 4speed (maybe 5s swap ...  I forget)...

Both of these builds are going to be pretty amazing

 

Anyway ... the 'modern' '02 conversion world is definitely in a period of expansion and exploration.  Buckle up!

 

and if anyone wants access to the Moment Verona build blog ... let me know ...

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Geoff Raynak

[Geoff Raynak]

and @theNomad

if you look at the power graphs of these motors ... they all 'redline' at about 6000 RPM

except for @rceldib Tesla swap ... which can spin up to 18000

 

so all the motor-replacement motors really benefit from a transmission just like a combustion engine benefits from one!

 

I also think that all the cars are using reclaimed Tesla battery modules ... except for @WisDesign who is using reclaimed Chrysler (LGCHEM) batteries.

 

happy motoring!

 

 

[TobyB]

Funny, Geoff, those numbers are more like the 325 eta M20- or a diesel.  

 

We've got one 'serious' electric karting place here- you drive them substantially

differently to a gas kart, as they have that torque advantage, but the power curve

tapers off quickly.  

 

Guess what I'm saying is that I agree with you- all the hand- waving doesn't matter, the motors are different.

And don't compare well.

 

t 

reusing a Tesla is better than recycling it

 

edit, since we were typing at the same time-

a simple 2- speed gearbox seems to be plenty adequate for most motors.

The equivalent of 2nd for neighborhood, 4th for the freeway.

Edited May 10, 2020 by TobyB

[Geoff Raynak]

K1Speed (?) we have one here in Bend, too

Kenny Roberts lives here (at least part time)

Super fun ... and absolutely different driving experience ... 

 

Same with the electric 02s.

I've never driven a Turbo or a modded/swapped 02 ... so I have nothing to compare to ... but the best word to describe is 'quick'.

Like Tesla versus Corvette ... both fast AF ... but a Tesla off the line is 'quick'

Different orders of magnitude with the electric '02s ... but for sure to leave a smile on your face!

 

 

[Geoff Raynak]

@TobyB

for sure ... 2 gears is 'plenty' ...

but if the car presents you with 4 or 5 (already sitting there in the car) ... then that is a very logical move

in fact ... you could 'leave it in 3rd' for almost anything (depending on your gear ratios)

it will never stall!!!

 

[rcf925]

Stock 4spd tranny can't handle the torque, They seem to always replace trans too. Tesla motor spins to 18k but has gear reduction on motor. On the BMW touring they did budget was 40k pounds  but went over budget, There ok but for that kind of money not for me. They have done two Ferrari 308's , old Fiat 550, Range Rover, Lancia Fulvia, BMW Touring and a few more, All quality builds but a lot of $$$

[rceldib]

Hey, thanks for the heads up. I am looking at the Vintage Voltage videos now. 
My 02 ELEC Body in White welding is done and trying to find the best place to get painted. For now will get it primed. If anyone knows a great paint shop in the San Fernando Valley side of Los Angeles please let me know. 
Shelter in place has slowed me down a bit on the electric side of the car but I did get a few PV panels/systems added to my house so now I am up to fifty-two panels and five systems working and two more in work.

[jrhone]

1 hour ago, Geoff Raynak said:

 

@jrhone:

not sure where those motor numbers come from

in some cases folks have done some hand-waving to say it 'feel like' a combustion engine with XXX HP ... but it really only produces YYY HP.

I don't think ElectricClassicCars plays those games ...

 

 

 

Good info...I got that info from the show.  And yes on the show they say it will perform like a xxx Hp motor.  Not actual HP numbers.