Tii good cold start, terrible warm running - PROBLEM SOLVED!

[zinz]

Wow, Tom... what a struggle.Do you have a local priest that can Exorcise it?

 

I can’t help on the injection stuff, but I would re-gap your plugs to something closer to stock for the time being. 0.035 is at the limits and may not work well in a particular set up.

 

Keep chopping away. You’ll get it soon enough. 

 

Ed

[Swiss 2002Tii]

Thanks Ed.  Aggravating, but shaping up to be a runner now!

 

Funny I just got a "ping"  yesterday from eBay about an ignition switch... I guess I'll be needing that...

[Swiss 2002Tii]

58 minutes ago, zinz said:

I can’t help on the injection stuff, but I would re-gap your plugs to something closer to stock for the time being. 0.035 is at the limits and may not work well in a particular set up.

 

Just realized... you were using thousandths of an inch, so 0.85mm = 0.034", so I guess I'm good.

 

Tom

[JerryC]

Tom stated:

First point, the gap on each plug is 0.85mm...  As I recall, the nominal gap is 0.32mm, and I recall a comment from Ed Zinz that he runs NGKs at 0.35mm... "Why waste all of that spark?"   I believe 0.85mm is how they come from the NGK factory.  Should they be adjusted or left as is (ideal setting from manufacturer)?

 

Regarding plug gaps, I think you may be getting inches and mm mixed up. Stock spec, I believe, is .024" which is 0.61mm. According to Rock Auto, NGK plugs are set to .025", or 0.64mm. Several other brands are set to .024". (Edit: Just saw your last post, looks like you caught the units difference, good job!).

 

For the record, 0.35mm = .014" (inches), and that's too small for a spark plug gap! The gap setting of .85mm is .034", and that should work. Unless you have a high energy ignition set up, .085" (inches) is too large a spark plug gap.

 

It sounds like you're closing in on having a good-running tii. I'm enjoying the updates, and look forward to the video ? of your smooth-revving tii pulling up those hills in the neighborhood!

Jerry

Edited July 8, 2018 by JerryC

[PaulTWinterton]

If you are having "run-on" you should check your timing before doing anything else to your injection.  You should see the ball (on the edge of the hole) on the flywheel at 2500rpms.  If you use the flywheel method the mark on the pulley should be 7° BTDC at idle with a stock distributor.  Set your dwell between 58-61.

 

Both these adjustments will help to get a steady idle as well.

 

Having said all that I remember that you have a 123 ignition.  Hmmm...can you set your 123 to mimic these settings?  I don't know from electronic timing.

[Swiss 2002Tii]

Thanks Jerry.  Yep, I had the units confused to the extent that I recently re-gapped my MBZ incorrectly... just went out and re-gapped back to the MBZ spec of 0.80mm for a 4.5L V-8!

 

It has been a great learning experience, but I am still far from the smooth-running Tii I had just two months ago!  It wasn't set up properly, but it ran smoothly and had good power up to 4000rpm.  At least now I have many of the right tools and the beginnings of understanding how the KF works, 'cause there ain't many around here who do!

 

I can still run it to do tests, but I'll have to pull the coil wire to stop it each time!

 

I'm with Ed... this car hasn't been showin'  me a whole lotta love in the last months! ?

Edited July 8, 2018 by Swiss 2002Tii

[irdave]

Woohoo!  This is great news.  Easy adjustment is to move the D cam to the stock setting using the 4mm drill to set it at the edge of the hole.  The next question is what's the mixture like at wide open throttle, which will tell you about the verboten screw.  This is the thread I've been reading...  I've been expanding on that, but it's a good place to start- at least it is for me- there are lots of ways to get to where you need to go, some people prefer different paths.  This is one that has been working for me... Your Mixture May Vary!

 

 

[Swiss 2002Tii]

18 hours ago, irdave said:

Do you have the 2 short rods swapped?  The intermediate shaft should be on top, brazed shaft going to the pump going forward should be on the bottom...

Thanks Dave, I didn't see this until this morning...

On my original set-up, the brazed shaft was not connected to the pump lever, it was in the intermediate position, between the intermediate shaft and the central throttle lever. Not correct?  It makes sense that it be in the forward position, as it's fixed length.  It makes sense that the adjustable section would be more accessible at the central throttle lever connection.  You can see more clearly here that they were connected correctly top and bottom.

 

 

 

I don't have the right angle to see both ends, but I have the KF lever to intermediate connected from KF lever to the downward-facing ball (bottom), and the intermediate to central lever attached to the upward-facing ball.  Is this correct?

I'll double-check this in the afternoon.

 

[Swiss 2002Tii]

13 hours ago, PaulTWinterton said:

If you are having "run-on" you should check your timing before doing anything else to your injection. 

Thanks Paul, this is more than a little shut-down run-on... it would run until the tank is empty.  I'm pretty sure my ignition switch has flaked out for the second time!

Tom

[Swiss 2002Tii]

OK, to settle the linkage travel questions, I decided to get back in there and start over again.  I definitely have the two short shafts on the proper positions.

Intermediate to central pivot is on top

 

intermediate lever bottom to KF lever forward. 

The two ball sockets on the intermediate lever have a tendency to pop off very easily.

Fortunately, Ted (Einspritz)  is sending me two plastic sockets... that's where they go!

The travel is at its limit, so it is tight to mount the locking pin.  I noticed I had a slightly acute angle on the tool, so I straightened it to a true 90 degrees and it fits slightly better, but in reality, I need to pop the intermediate linkage, mount the pin, and then stretch the intermediate linkage back onto its ball.

I cannot find any binding points that would limit travel for the two short shafts.  With the D-cam shaft loose, those two shafts are at the fullest defection in a nearly straight line, and

it's a tight fit no matter what.

I did the Service Technical Bulletin to angle the intermediate lever:

 
 

 

I noticed that I had some friction on the d-cam as it slid through the groove in the butterfly lever, so I disassembled the TB to check the shimming on the butterfly shaft.  Very subtle, that setup!

 

I'm thinking about that weird "can't stop the motor" problem... I laid the washer bottle assembly up against the dizzy and coil while I was checking plugs...   The oil and charge lights remain on after I turn off the switch,  maybe I bumped a wire...   I checked everything when I pulled the coil wire to stop the motor.... but it's worth checking over carefully tomorrow.

On the starter, I just have the black-white wire to the lower left spade lug, no black-red wire in my circuit.

 

Ran out of time to button everything back up, so that must wait for the weekend.

 

[irdave]

And just to verify, you are backing out the idle screw before you try to put the tool in the back of the pump to lock the linkage, right? (Just trying to take care of the horses before we start looking for zebras...)

[Swiss 2002Tii]

Great saying from Mike’s father in law!...

yep, D-cam shaft is loose, screw backed off.

[Swiss 2002Tii]

What a difference a 1/4 turn CW made!  I set everything to "zero":

Lever pinned at idle,

D-cam set to edge of hole,

Mixture screw set for one ful turn CW from first contact

V-screw 1/4 turn CW

 

I had a nice cold start, upwards of 1800rpm, ticking over very smoothly.  AFR at a steady 10.2. VERY different from last trial cold start where it would barely run on all four cylinders.

 

Took it around the neighborhood to warm up and was having quite a good romp up and down the hills.  Ran it up to 4500 rpm with lots of power, AFR staying in the 9.0 -10.5 range at POT, with engine braking going down hills AFR 12.x .  A few pops on engine braking.

 

I tried applying the brakes to go WOT, but the car bogged severely and AFR dropped below 9.0.

 

I realized it was on dead empty; it must have beendrinking gas during the past crazy-rich episode!  I cruised to the nearest Shell station for a tank ofV-Power 100 octane (no ethanol).

 

The car was warm (not hot), ticking over beautifully (some slight misses, but pretty smooth), at about1300rpm.   The D-cam was at the minimum travel, (but not quite to the edge of the hole) with AFR at 10.2, and here is where I got carried away I my excitement...

 

I adjusted the mixture screw to get a higher AFR, but it took about a 1/2 turn CW to get it to 10.9.  After I tanked up, I could immediately feel that power was off, it was hesitating, starting to miss, with AFR below 10.9 most of the time, but also gettiing anomalous leanreadings too.

 

I drove a short distance and found a shady spot to make adjustments:

I pinned the lever, loosened the intermediate and adjusted the D-cam to the edge of the hole again,

I got carried away here with the t-can mixture screw and lost track of where I was. (Small steps, small steps!☹️)

 

Tried running further and stopped to adjust again.

From that point I couldn't get back to a steady rpm; lost a lot of power, and it was from then on very lumpy and without power.  I started getting some crazy-lean readings, but it would always steady up if I held rpmssteady at AFR 10.9 at 2000rpm

 

So, thinking about the experience, I think I may have been enjoying the WUR still being in the equation when it was running smoothly.  Once it was fully warmed, itgot flaky again.

 

I will reset everything to zero again tomorrow AM (except V-screw), and try again. This time, if it is running decent, I will just drive it and observe it at different rpms and get it good and hot.

 

It was fun while it lasted!

 

 

 

 

 

[PaulTWinterton]

When new or adjusted properly the engine idles at approx 1200rpms until the WUR becomes inactive.  This can take upto a few minutes.  Then the idle drops to approx 900rpms.

 

I would let it warm up before driving.  If it's idling higher than 1200 I suspect it's too rich and I would turn the Vscrew back toward original position. 

[Swiss 2002Tii]

Hi Paul,

it was crazy rich after resetting everything, so turning the v-screw Clockwise 1/4 turn is to lean it, rather than enrich it.  This cold start was much better than before adjusting the v-screw.

I went from extremely lean after re-setting everything when t-shooting the breather-t-body hose popping off, to extremely rich now that everything was set to “zero”.

 

I appear to be still running very rich.  I will drive it and really get it hot before making any further changes.

Tom