Tii good cold start, terrible warm running - PROBLEM SOLVED!

[Einspritz]

It was me that said in a pinch you could slice a thin slice of silicone vacuum tubing, place it in the cup, and it will take up a bit of the slack. the downside is that  if it is too long it will pop the linkage off when running.

 

Similar cups can be had via the Alfa / fiat channels, and perhaps W&N has them as it would be closer to you.

 

or http://www.lucasdevelopment.co.uk/

 

 

 

[jgerock]

Please do a search here for tii filters and screens. Finding the old pics and posts on my iPad is tougher than using my pc. 

 

To answer your question, the cold start solenoid valve has a tiny brass screen inside the inlet. The last new one I purchased from BMW included a screen already inside the inlet tube.  If that is clogged, you will experience cold starting issues.

 

if the rubber bits made it into the KF pump head, they could have gotten into the injectors.  Far fetched but I have seen many weird things with these cars.  

[PaulTWinterton]

5 hours ago, Swiss 2002Tii said:

It has a small wire inside that acts as a retainer, doesn't it?  It  should pop off, right?

 

It will pop off with a bit of force.  From above and behind pump you can wedge a large flathead screwdriver under the body of the socket (against the pump lever) and twist the screwdriver to get the socket off.

 

An open ended 9mm wrench (as a lever) also works but is hard to get into that area.

 

I said all your sockets are worn out.  Generally if one is toast all the rest are on their way out.  Best to replace all in one go.  There should be NO play between ball and socket. The linkage to the pump/intermediate shaft is the most critical as it alters the a/f mix. If it's sloppy so is your a/f mix.  The other rods will alter the response of your pedal.  The firmer the better for instant throttle response.

Edited June 26, 2018 by PaulTWinterton

[Swiss 2002Tii]

Yep, you all "tol'  me so"!  

Took Ted's advice to try Alfa suppliers.  Just ordered six sockets at a reasonable €3.50 each compared to €35-40 plus shipping and duties for buying the assemblies (the shipping to Switzerland as always costs more than the parts, but still got all six for the price of one assembly).  http://www.afl-ricambi.de/Startseite

 

I might as well bite the bullet and pull the throttle body, replace the plastic cup bearing, set up the liknkage with new sockets, and set everything up properly.  Less variables when tuning!

Edited June 27, 2018 by Swiss 2002Tii

[Einspritz]

Of course, "while you are in there", and it is off the car, check the bearings and seals of the throttle plate and / or the bottom "rubber" cup?

 

How are the bushings that the Throttle cam shaft go through?

 

I have the bushings, seals and bearings if that is what you need to get this right. PM me.

[PaulTWinterton]

11 hours ago, Swiss 2002Tii said:

Just ordered six sockets at a reasonable €3.50 each

 

Ok, here's a curveball.  The linkage rod to the pump has a reverse-threaded end.  I doubt that you found a reverse-threaded socket from the Alfa dealer.  Therefore you need to replace that complete linkage piece on the back of the pump.  You can use the existing rod (length) to measure a piece of 5mm aluminum (or steel) rod and thread your own rod.  Not difficult with a tap&die set.  Also purchase the correct metric nut.

 

Edit: I just realized you probably have a fixed length second (85mm) rod as well.  That will have to be replaced because you can't remove the ends.  They are braised-on or something.

 

So now you can make 2 85mm linkage pieces.  The 289mm linkage piece has removable normal threaded ends so you can re-use the rod.

 

I did this recently:
https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/216462-tii-linkage-gauge-diy/

 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by PaulTWinterton

[Swiss 2002Tii]

Right again, Paul.  The lower intermediate linkage is braised. 

 

And the reverse thread... now I know why they sell it as an assembly!  I can use the 5mm steel rod stock remaining from my idle lever pin tool-making exercise to cut and thread two short rods for the two intermediate linkages, and I'm in bidness!

 

Easy-peasy for the long rod.

 

Now all I need is your at-home machine shop to make the pin alignment tool!?

 

I wish I had re-read your thread to source the parts before I placed my order.  I was thinking, what happens if I pull the linkage and find the balls are worn?  I would have ordered the balls as well, but the site I ordered from didn't offer them.  In reality, the balls on the levers are braised in, are they not?  I'm not really equipped for that kind of major surgery, but I know a machine shop that could do it if necessary.

 

Once I have the parts in hand, I'll pull the lot and clean and fit everything from the beginning.

 

Paul, I just re-read your thread(again), and dlacey's comments about the geometric impact of changing the length, mvliotta's, and your performance challenges are interesting:

dlacey:

To follow-up on the effect of lengthening the 85mm rod:

If I unscrewed the rod to get to a length ~87.5mm, i then reassembled and went through full setup procedure, locking the pump and setting the throttle butterfly with the 4mm rod etc.

After optimising idle mixture it improved my part-throttle weak-mixture situation (hunting) which before was quite bad at 1500 rpm despite idle mixture setup being fine... there's still a little weakness at 1200, but by 1500 its smooth... also appears better-behaved on full throttle when hot (previous some pinking despite backing-off ignition already).

so *maybe* lengthening the rod does richen part-throttle mixture as we postulated above.... 

mvliotta:

Paul - I have what seems to be the same 'problem'. Thought I was on the right track it recently when I found a vacuum leak in one of the plastic intake runners with a home made smoke machine... did not help though. Still need to keep the idle a bit rich (12 on AFR) to keep it from hunting and to keep the mid to upper throttle in the right range

 

I am new to the performance of the Tii motor, and I told my mechanic when they did the initial tune that it felt like it was "hunting" when I held a steady @2500-3000 RPM; sounds similar...

 

I must admit that when I first started reading about the KF on this site I didn't fully appreciate the significance of a +/- 1.0mm adjustment change on any given assembly.  Man, this thing really is really tuned on a knife edge.  I just hope it's stable once configured correctly!

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Swiss 2002Tii
additional info

[PaulTWinterton]

The balls are hardened steel.  Not to worry.  They generally don't wear much.

 

Stick with 85mm.  You should be able to achieve acceptable performance with the default setting.

 

You'll be pleasantly surprised at the fit of the Alfa sockets.  No play.

[PaulTWinterton]

1 hour ago, Swiss 2002Tii said:

Now all I need is your at-home machine shop to make the pin alignment tool!

 

If you are only making one set of linkages, you can measure lengths with a ruler or calipers.  No need for the tool.  That's just me wanting to create tools that are NLA.

 

Off-topic: Currently I'm keen on this NLA tool for adjusting brake shoes with the wheels on the car.  Photo courtesy of John_In_VA.

 

 

[irdave]

6 minutes ago, PaulTWinterton said:

 

If you are only making one set of linkages, you can measure lengths with a ruler or calipers.  No need for the tool.  That's just me wanting to create tools that are NLA.

 

Off-topic: Currently I'm keen on this NLA tool for adjusting brake shoes with the wheels on the car.  Photo courtesy of John_In_VA.

 

 

Got an approximate length on that guy?  Haven't fired up my torch in a long time...  (Way off topic, I know.  I'm a tool slut, I can't help it.  I also have a propensity for vulgar language, can't help that, either...)

[PaulTWinterton]

7 minutes ago, irdave said:

Got an approximate length on that guy?

 

More detailed pics here:

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/221721-advice-on-drum-adjustment-bolts/?page=2

[Einspritz]

15" / 380mm

 

You are a tool ENTHUSIAST.

[Einspritz]

I might add the length and shape is so that you can adjust while the wheel and tire are on the car, at least for a 13" rim.

[Swiss 2002Tii]

I had a chance to get back to the KF linkage.  The ball sockets are due to be delivered tomorrow, so I thought I would pull the linkage shafts and cut and thread the new shafts. 

For starters, the socket on the KF lever just didn't want to let go.  I tried wrenches and screwdrivers, wrenches and wrenches, you name it.  That thing just didn't want to let go.  I was deflecting the KF lever to such an extent I was afraid I would bend it.  Finally worked the 5mm steel rod for the shafts into a spot here it could prevent the lever from deflecting, and used a screwdriver to lever off of that to pop it off.  The others were all easy.

Here's what I found:

The KF lever to intermediate shaft linkage measured 91mms!

So considering dlacey's calculations and findings, this is off by a New York mile when considering a stock setup.  Although it my case it hasn't resulted in an enriched state.

 

The braised shaft from intermediate to throttle linkage measured 85mm as one would expect (my marks were cut by eye, so could be off by a mm or so).

The long shaft to the throttle measured 296mms!

I went ahead and cut and threaded rods for each of these, even though the thread on these is M5, not M6 as you would get using a 5mm rod.  The shafts on these are 4.5mm, and hence an M5 thread.  

Paul indicated a 5mm rod would work, so I'm hoping the new sockets are threaded for M6.  If not, I hope I can find a 4.5mm rod.

 

 I must say I'm disappointed that my mechanic, with 25 years of M10/Tii experience, 15 of those years sport-tuning M10s for Heidegger, didn't do a better job of setting this system up.  I saw the jigs like Paul made for setting 85mm and 289mm in his shop, and he said he used them.

Just goes to prove that one shouldn't make assumptions when setting up something as precise as a KF system!

I'll pull the throttle body to clean up the tuna can, check bushing run-out, and replace the plastic bearing cup once I have the linkage components.

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Swiss 2002Tii
spelling

[irdave]

That's really interesting. I lengthened my intermediate shaft about 2mm yesterday, leaned out the mid throttle range about a full point, from 12ish to 13ish. You have much more patience than me- I would be adjusting the rods and putting everything back together just to see if that solved the problem...