Looking at getting into racing

[AustrianVespaGuy]

So, a whole bunch of good things are coming together for me here this summer, primarily our move to Georgia where we'll end up a very short 20 min away from Road Atlanta!  As such, I'm thinking about getting into racing a bit more.  I'm still 'green' but not entirely new either; I've done several autox events, mostly with the CCA at the performance center, a few beginner HDPEs, and am one of several drivers for a Chumpcar team.  No solo license yet but plan to get that over the next year or so.  Here's my questions for the community here:

1.) What sort or training regiment would you recommend? Just track days here and there to build up hours, or something more formalized? I see that Road Atlanta has a Skip Barber school, for example, though I've always wondered if you really got your money's worth at those.

2.) For a car, I like driving the 2002 at HDPEs, but don't think I'm willing to put it in a wheel-to-wheel environment and I don't want to put a cage in it either, so I'm considering a more dedicated track (but still street-legal) car at this point.  I think an E30 would be the obvious choice, but I'm certainly open to opinions.  And as far as E30s go, 318 vis 325?  One important point is I want to keep things at 1993 an older to avoid Gwinnett county's pain-in-the-dick emissions testing!

3.) Any other ideas/advice you'd care to offer, I'm all ears and interested in being educated at this point before I start dropping real money!  Thanks all!

[tzei]

Hi. Racing and "i don't want to put a cage in" does not go very well together imo. Could you please consider this one once again. And take the cage option.

[Mike87]

Look at the racing series that you are wanting to get into. Get a copy of their rules and read/understand them. It may come out that there are things within the rules that you do not want to do. It also may change your direction.

 

Then go to school. Barber is good. There are others as well that are very good. Just be willing to learn.

 

Know that you will be opening your wallet very wide. Look for an already race ready car to save you a ton of time (and possibly some $$). But a lot will depend on the direction you want to go.

 

Go to races and talk to the people there who race and pick their brains. You will get a lot of info that way. Prep (knowledge) is key before diving in with both feet. You may find that there are some things about the series that you want to get into that you do not like. Asking questions will help you determine your path.

[AustrianVespaGuy]

32 minutes ago, tzei said:

Hi. Racing and "i don't want to put a cage in" does not go very well together imo. Could you please consider this one once again. And take the cage option.

I only meant I don't want to put a cage into my CURRENT 2002, that's all! Obviously the new track car would get a proper cage right off the bat.  Sorry for the misunderstanding, but to clarify no, I am not a dumbass!

[tzei]

21 minutes ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

I only meant I don't want to put a cage into my CURRENT 2002, that's all! Obviously the new track car would get a proper cage right off the bat.  Sorry for the misunderstanding, but to clarify no, I am not a dumbass!

Excellent! Maybe it was just me who didn't understand (would be the first time). So if magic year is 1993 is there any early (90-93) E36's around? I think that could be one option?

[AceAndrew]

Look hard into SpecE30.  I helped build a handful of specE30 M20 engines for friends and have helped setup a number of the cars over the years.  It is very competitive, but also very welcoming.  A benefit is that you can also use the car for enduros when the bug bites.

 

For various reasons, spec e36 never quite caught on, and spec E46 is already proving to be very enticing (although outside of your date limit).

[AustrianVespaGuy]

Would anyone argue for another 2002 in favor of an E30?  I get the feeling that 2002s have just gotten a bit too expensive, but superb parts availability and the fact that I already know them inside and out are certainly both a plus. Oh and to @Mike87's question, I'm basically looking at SCCA Improved Touring but just because it seems the most universal entry level, and am certainly open to other options.  I'll start researching specE30s a bit!

[gracer]

As others have said.  Get ready to spend lots of money.  I started racing in 88 with a 2002 in ITB.  I now race a 1600 in H production.  In between I have raced a TII in ITA and an  E30 325Is in ITS.  Read the rules set of the organization that you plan to race in.  Then read them twice more.  It is cheaper to buy a used race car than to build one yourself.  Or you can find one to rent.  Good luck and enjoy.  G

[AustrianVespaGuy]

Well ok, some additional disclosure here, it's the building it that will be half the fun for me.  The 2002 is basically done, and I'm starting to hanker for a new project, so I'm looking at this as a two birds one stone kinda deal.  That's why I also want it street legal.  Since I'll be living so close to RA, goal is to have a fun project car that I can run up and have fun at the track whenever something fun is going on, then drive (or tow if necessary) it home again, and work on it for the next outting!  @gracer, has 'Production' replaced 'Improved Touring' recently or something, or are they two separate categories?

Edited May 3, 2018 by AustrianVespaGuy

[tomphot]

IMO, the best bang for the buck right now is endurance racing.  I race in 3 series, American Endurance Racing (AER), World Racing League (WRL) and ChampCar.  A typical weekend of racing for those series results in each of us getting between 3-5 hours of seat time depending on the format.  Our car is an '09 MX5 that we put a 2.5 into.  3 of us own it and our mechanic wrenches on it in exchange for seat time.  Living in ATL, last year we did 2 races at year at Road Atlanta then did Barber, Daytona, Sebring, Atlanta Motorsports Park and NCM.  Splitting the cost 3 ways and getting tons more seat time vs NASA etc. is the way to go.

I started by doing a year of Chumpcar racing then the 3 day Skip Barber and went from there.  You may want to try and hook up with an existing team, ChampCar has an active forum group.  They are always looking for volunteers during the races as pit marshals etc.  It's a great way to get your foot in the door, meet folks and even get on with a team and then help out and start to drive.  The next RA race is WRL in July BTW.   

 

I know your getting a cage but this video from this past weekend illustrates why.  This car was paddocked across from us, he "walked" away (well spent 1 night in hospital) but had no broken bones.  The 914 tried to pass another car with 2 wheels off, hit an MX5 who hit the Rabbit.  I saw in car video from behind this, car tumbled 9 times, at one point 20' in the air.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by tomphot

[Mike87]

Production (P) and Improved Touring (IT) are both SCCA classes and they are different. They have different rules/specs for the cars.

 

Get the rules. They have separate rules for each classification in SCCA. Other organizations may have them lumped together.

 

I ran SCCA IT in a 2002 for about 5 years back in the late 90's/early 2000's. 

[Preyupy]

You first need to decide if you want to be competitive or don't really care.  If you want to "race" a 2002 just about the only place you stand a chance is in Vintage racing in clubs that have rules that limit the cars and preparation to the early 70's (72 or earlier).  Anything later than that and aerodynamics start becoming a major issue, (a 200SX Datsun with the same HP as a BMW 2002 is going to be 10mph faster on the straights at Road Atlanta). 

 

If you just HAVE to race a BMW then one of the Spec BMW classes makes the most sense because of the rules there are not many SCCA classes that any BMW turns out to be "THE" car to have. Look at the results from the last few years of SCCA National Championship races, you can see what cars are competitive in each class.  Don't start your racing saddled with a uncompetitive car just because you picked the wrong one. 

 

Many years ago I decided I wanted to run SCCA National Races with the intent of going to the Runnoffs. The first thing I did was figure out how much I could spend and then went looking for a class and a car that would allow me to run at the front of the field if I prepared the car well and drove it well.  I looked at the previous year's Runnoff results and saw that in Showroom Stock C of the 40 cars at the Runnoffs 28 of them were VW GTI's.  The first NON GTI finished 13th.  The GTI was clearly the car to have in that group,  I can't say I am a big fan of FWD or VW  but it was the right weapon for THAT WAR.  In 2 years of racing that car I ran 32 races, I won 29 of them and finished 6th out of 43 cars at the Runnoffs on my 1st try.  The next year they moved the MR2 Toyota into SSC and the GTI was no longer the car to have, I sold it! 

 

It sounds like you want a race car that you can also "drive on the street" (based on the problem with emission inspections)  The only problem is the car will never be very good at EITHER.  If what you want is a fun HPDE car then build a fun street car.  If you want a "RACE CAR" then build a proper race car and forget driving it on the street.

 

The least expensive thing about racing is buying the race car!  What ever you think you can afford to spend on racing for your first 2 years of racing spend less than 25% of that on the purchase (or building) of the race car. 

 

" The easiest way to make a small fortune in racing, START WITH A BIG ONE"    

[tomphot]

11 minutes ago, Preyupy said:

" The easiest way to make a small fortune in racing, START WITH A BIG ONE"    

 

Or take a $100 bill out of your wallet - take a match and light it on fire.  If that doesn't bother you at all, start racing. 

[Preyupy]

9 minutes ago, tomphot said:

 

Or take a $100 bill out of your wallet - take a match and light it on fire.  If that doesn't bother you at all, start racing. 

Hell that's just the Beer Tab for the crew the 1st weekend.

[redrumm3]

I would echo all that Preyupy has said!

A. You need to be really honest with yourself about what you are willing to spend to go racing. It costs a lot.

B. You will need to get more track driving experience than what you currently have to get a racing license with any sanctioning body other than ChampCar. I think professional racing schools can be a real benefit to drivers if they come into it with a lot of track experience. It is needed to really take advantage of the education they are offering.

C. Realistically a race/street car will not work. If you want to race you will need a dedicated car. Otherwise your just kidding yourself.

Your lucky to be so close to Road Atlanta, it's a great track. Also, your an easy drive from VIR, Roebling Road and Barber Motorsports Park.

If your really interested I would suggest going to the track and talk with other racers. Most likely they will be happy to share their experience and knowledge with you. There are a lot of BMW racers in the Atlanta area and I would be happy to provide you with some contacts to reach out to. BMW CCA also has a big presence there.

Having said that, I would encourage you to get involved. I've been racing, mostly BMW's, for over twenty years and did my first driving school in 1987 and don't regret a minute of it. Go for it, just be honest with yourself about it.


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