engine and drivetrain Throw Out Bearing Blocking Trany Install?

[evanb]

OK this is my first time installing a transmission, so maybe this is a stupid question, but...

 

Im installing a 5 speed, but when i try to get the transmission flush with the engine, it stops about 1-2 inches from flush. 

 

Im ASSUMING this is due to the slave cylinder pushing the fork out, pushing the throw out bearing out, which then hits the pressure plate when i try to install. I know the input shaft is through the pressure plate and mating with the clutch disk ok, because the output shaft wont spin once i get to where it stops. 

 

Ive tried just pushing real hard, to no avail. I tried pushing the slave cylinder in, but it just pops out.

 

Am i correct about whats stopping me? It seems the only solution if im right would be to connect the slave to the master, which would pull the slave in.

 

Help!

[Guest_anonymous]

no not correct. 1-2" gap at the bell housing mating surface your trans input shaft splines are not lining up with the clutch disk. 1/2" your input shaft is not slipping into the pilot bearing.

If you removed the clutch pressure plate did you use an alignment tool to center them on the flywheel?

A little light weight oil on the input shaft goes a long way.

put it in gear and try again.

your engine is in the bay on the mounts?

you have enough tunnel clearance?

distributor is removed?

steering turned to allow better clearance?

are you using long set screws in the block as guides?

relax, force doesn't work here, finesse does. last thing you want to do is butcher the pilot bearing from the nose of the input shaft

the bell housing and the block gap needs to be parallel as they sandwich together. and it will go.

you will not need to mess with the slave, master, the TB or arm.

GL.

An aside question?

You are using the correct TB for your application: 320 TB for 215 flywheel, 323 TB for 228 Flywheel

Edited October 31, 2013 by daron

[evanb]

daron –

 

the clutch is aligned as far as i can tell. the alignment tool slips in and out with ease, not exactly "nothing but net", but darn close.

 

Youre saying the transmission has to be in gear? And the distributer has to be removed? Can you explain why, im still trying to wrap my head around the the moving parts here.

 

otherwise, the steering is turned, there is clearance (though just barely),

[evanb]

weird, double post...

 

the throw out bearing is the correct size, i got everything from ie in one go, everything else is correct as far as i can tell.

 

It looks like i just have to give it another go. Ill also try the longer screws to help align everything.

[Guest_anonymous]

if you take the dizzy out you wont break it when wrestling the tranny and block around, it will constantly rub on the rain tray. I always had a hard time installing the tranny until someone threw it in gear for me, i'm sure he explained it to me and it made sense at the time, I just throw it in gear now.

There is a "tranny install with engine in the car write up", I went to a specialty bolt place and bought long set screws as alignment pins for guiding the tranny from underneath. it helped me get it to the point where I could get the mating surfaces parallel, the slip it together.

[FB73tii]

You want the trans in gear so you can rotate the output flange (slightly) by hand and thereby turn the input shaft to align it with the splines in the clutch plate. Having done this many times, the key is alignment. Look for an even gap between the trans housing and back of engine block before even trying to make that last 1/2 inch. Have a bolt handy because if you don't, when you have to let go to grab a bolt the engine and trans will surely separate! On my 2002's I always have issues with the trans hitting the top of the tunnel, even after I ground off the lip. I loosen the engine mounts and wedge some small wood blocks in to tilt the engine back. Be careful of radiator clearance when doing this, and also distributor needs to be removed (as said above) for clearance. I have tried fabricating cradles for my floor jack, but I always just end up bench pressing the trans in, usually holding it with one knee. Be careful and don't drop it on your face! As said above, you cannot force it. You have to wheedle, wiggle, and cajole it in. Swearing helps

 

--Fred '69 & '74tii

Edited October 31, 2013 by FB73tii

[eurotrash]

Rotating the trans a bit can help. To the passenger side.

[FunkyLaneO]

Swearing helps

 

--Fred '69 & '74tii

 

So true! haha.

[Preyupy]

If you are using the plastic alignment tool make SURE IT SLIDES IN WITH NO DRAG! They are not exactly the right dimensions and they can bend just enough to fit with a little bit of effort, the input shaft on the gearbox WON'T. If you have everything lined up correctly it will slide in and compress the clutch slave cyl with no problem. Something is wrong if you have to force it, don't use the bolts to pull it together you can damage the clutch disc and/or the pilot bearing.

[FB73tii]

If you are using the plastic alignment tool make SURE IT SLIDES IN WITH NO DRAG!

 

Yep, I was just installing a new flywheel last night and saw that the play in the alignment tool would allow the clutch disk to move around a bit. I held it in what I judged to be the center of the play with one hand while I did the initial tighten on the pressure plate bolts (in a star pattern, of course). In this case the trans was in the car and by aligning the block with the trans carefully it pretty much went in on the first try. Easiest mating of block and trans I ever had. I am taking it as a good sign that my new engine won't have any issues this time! I have taken to installing just the bottom end first, then the head after--I can see much better to get the alignment with the trans shaft right.

--Fred

[evanb]

thanks for all the info, your responses have me feeling much better about how i was going about it, now i just need to remove the distributor and get the transmission in there. 

[Guest_anonymous]

 Be careful of radiator clearance when doing this,

--Fred '69 & '74tii

cardboard between the radiator and fan

[rms_sandiego]

It may also help to compress the clutch arm and slave cylinder rod into the bell housing and use a wire or zip tie to hold them back. There is enough space between the bottom of the slave cylinder mounting flange and the tranny to run the wire out and tie it around the slave cylinder where it can be cut and removed after the tranny is in place. That way the throwout bearing is not hitting the clutch fingers until everything is all lined up and slid into place.

 

I am sure someone with stronger muscles could honcho it all into place with just a floor jack or benchpressing from below, but investing in the harbor freight tranny jack for $80 was the best decision I ever made. I've had to wrestle the tranny in and out four or five times so far in my 5 speed conversion to check clearances and get the cross member mount positioned correctly,and it makes it relatively painless. When you are finally ready and have the clutch installed, you can move the tranny into pretty good linup with the jack, and then with the input shaft just between the clutch fingers rotate the output flange (with tranny in 2nd gear) to get the splines to align while pushing the tranny forward. You know they are aligned when you can't rotate the flange anymore and then you can concentrate on wiggling and rotating the tranny while moving it forward and into final position. The last little bit of getting the pins aligned between the block and the tranny, as well as getting the tranny slid forward is generally when I find I have to rock the engine on the mounts a bit. and rotate the tranny.

 

+1 on the cardboard protecting the radiator and removing the dizzy cap and rotor, Better safe than sorry.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Rob S

[jgerock]

I think we all have our preferred methods for installing a transmission in these cars.  One thing I have learned when installing the 5 speed is to leave out the clutch disk and pressure plate when doing test fitting for the driveshaft length, rear mounts and reverse light switch wiring.

 

Unfortunately, it creates a false sense of security and empowerment when you actually install the tranny with the clutch installed.

 

 

[rms_sandiego]

Too true...