electrical and ignition Is There A Correct Pertronix For An 002 Dizzy?

[hchueh]

I'm assuming many of you run Pertronix in your 188 002 dizzy. My question is, which kit? Their online tool does not list that dizzy. And when I called Pertronix, they said that none of their kits fits the 002 dizzy properly. They said the closest kit #2842 is about 12 degrees off at best at the higher RPMs !

 

So just wondering what folks do...

[lilmo]

I stick with points.    

[Emyers]

I am running the Crane XR700.  Have been since 1993.

Earl

74 02Lux

02 M Roadster

72 Volvo 1800ES

[hchueh]

I am running the Crane XR700. Have been since 1993.

Earl

74 02Lux

02 M Roadster

72 Volvo 1800ES

Actually that's what I'm running right now, but the wheel does not seem to fit all that well and is subject to slippage. So was considering going back to points or Pertronix. I suppose I can also try to hunt down the proper wheel...

[Emyers]

Actually that's what I'm running right now, but the wheel does not seem to fit all that well and is subject to slippage. So was considering going back to points or Pertronix. I suppose I can also try to hunt down the proper wheel...

The proper wheel does make all the difference.  The correct wheel has no metal springs, but is entirely plastic and is a press fit on the cam/shaft.  You might price the replacement wheel kit if everything else in the system is good.  Might find the replacement wheel kit is less that a replacement Pertronix, and you would be retaining a true electronic ignition instead of stepping down to a simple Hall effect trigger.

Earl

74 02Lux

02 M Roadster

72 Volvo 1800ES

[adawil2002]

In the Articles tab > Electrical & Ignition

 

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/_/technical-articles/electrical-and-ignition/pertronix-basics-installation-guide-r62

[hchueh]

In the Articles tab > Electrical & Ignition

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/_/technical-articles/electrical-and-ignition/pertronix-basics-installation-guide-r62

Thanks -- Yes, saw that and this is the kit that many places that sell Pertronix will suggest, but interestingly for the 188 002 dizzy, this exact model is not listed in the Pertronix fitment catalog because even though several kits will fit, Pertronix says they won't be quite right. Seems odd but that's what Pertronix tech told me. And the kit they said was closest to correct for the 002 dizzy wasn't even that one!

I've just been learning a lot about ignition since I discovered the PO of my '72 Tii had Crane optical in it (shoddy install). I'm not religious about any of this and plan to eventually also run points on a freshly recurved dizzy, but in the meantime poking around. The ignition123 sounds pretty wild, though may be overkill!

['76mintgrün'02]

I called Pertronix to ask which set to use on the 002 that came in my car and they suggested the 2842, without mentioning the 12 degree discrepancy.  I don't understand how an electronic trigger can affect timing.  I thought it was basically a switch and the advance mechanism in the distributor set the curve.  I have points back in the car now and am tempted to plot the advance curve as it sits; then go back to the 2842 and plot it again.  The dwell and timing have stayed dead on with the points, so I have not messed with it...  Tom

[Preyupy]

The difference in timing is not based on where the ignition event happens compared to the crankshaft position, this can be changed by turning the distributor housing. Advance is controlled by the springs and weighs inside the distributor and that does not change no matter what trigger you use (Points, Pertronix, Crane etc) The timing difference Pertronix was talking about is based on the position of the distributor rotor to the contacts in the cap. Moving the trigger inside the distributor can make the ignition event happen when the rotor is not pointed right at the correct contact in the cap. Unless you check this on a distributor machine or some other way of knowing EXACTLY where the rotor is pointed when the points open (or the electronic module triggers the coil) you can have a miss fire that you will have a tough time finding.

[hchueh]

Preyupy, exactly. From what I understand, when you bolt in the magnet and detector, the physical positioning determines when the Pertronix will fire the coil relative to rotor position. This has to be calibrated to be reasonably accurate across the entire RPM range, and this is what Pertronix does when they create a specific "kit" for a specific dizzy. They have not yet created a kit specific to the 002 dizzy, apparently.

That all said #2842 appears to be "good enough" to work ok if not ideal.

Edited October 18, 2013 by hc2002

['76mintgrün'02]

Moving the trigger inside the distributor can make the ignition event happen when the rotor is not pointed right at the correct contact in the cap.

 

 

_{Does that explain why my cap looked like this after running a #2842 in my 188 002?}

 

 

[hchueh]

Interesting, could be. Based on that burn pattern and the fact that the rotor goes clockwise, I'd say you are getting a late spark. And that could be because the rotor is past the dizzy contact when the Pertronix triggers, so the arc goes back and catches the closest, now passing, contact edge.

[Preyupy]

The way the advance system in our distributors work the rotor to cap contact relationship does not change as advance/retard happens, or as you move the distributor body to set timing. Yes those witness marks on the cap show that the ignition event is happening as the rotor is still ahead of the cap contact. If you get it lined up correctly it will stay that way no matter what you do to "timing or advance"

Italian distributors don't work this way and you have to make sure you align the rotor/cap so that at full retard it they are lined up on the trailing side of the contacts so that as it advances you move to the leading side (PITA)

[hchueh]

Preyupy, isn't this an indication of the rotor being PAST the cap contact? (Flipping the cap over in my head).

But yes the relationship won't change regardless of advance/timing. Unless the Hall effect of the trigger has some dependence on RPM but probably not.

Can the detector be moved around? I thought they came with a single position and that's part of the issue with kits "matching" specific dizzys.

Edited October 18, 2013 by hc2002

['76mintgrün'02]

If you get it lined up correctly...

 

Are you saying that the detector needs to be relocated (rotated around the shaft) for the spark to happen at the proper relation to the cap?