body and interior Stock Hood Foam Question

[02fanatic]

Gruppe,

 

Has anyone purchased a set of stock hood foam (i.e. under bonnet insulation) from BMW lately?  I understand BMW no longer sells the foam pieces individually, but they sell them as a three piece "set".

 

The proper sizes should be two large pieces (for center and pass/right side) and a smaller narrow piece for the driver/left side).  All the pics I see appear to have two small pieces and one large piece...which is wrong!

 

Thanks for any input,

 

John

[BillWilliams]

This debate is pretty old. I have the two larger pieces and one smaller piece on the orange car and have been told by the folks that should know, mine is incorrect. However, it has not ever been scored "off" in any events with the exception of the BMW Oktoberfest at Watkins Glen in the award judging for "originality".

 

 

 

So agreement seems to be on the size for the left and right sides. The debate is the size of the center section. Should it be the same size as the smaller or the larger one? There seems to be some empirical evidence, from dead stock cars, that the camp that supports the two smaller pieces and one large piece is correct.

 

As far as availability, it seems like vendors are supplying a set with two rectangular pieces, one small and one larger one and a "triangular" one. This was discussed in a very recent post. I posted photos there.

 

This is a photo from one of the most original cars I have seen, not saying it is THE most original, just the most original I have seen and have a photograph of.

 

 

So, this may be one of the mysteries or inconsistencies, we fuss about, that may in the long run, not mean much at all. But since you ended your post with an ! you seem to be convinced of the two larger sections. If you had any proof of that, it would make me happy meaning my car was correct. However, I am still not convinced one way or the other.

 

I have not figured out how to use the new search feature to turn up that discussion thread back in late 2008.

Edited August 6, 2013 by BillWilliams

[hanksjim1]

Not sure it was the same on all cars...but my '72 2002 has 13k original miles...has never been painted...the residual glue and leftovers from the original foams pads make the size and location clearly visible.

 

BTW, the dimensions of the pads are:

 

sides - 19 3/8" h x 12 1/2" w

center - 13 1/8" h x18 5/8" w

[BillWilliams]

Now there is a third option.

[Mike Self]

It's been a long time since I painstakingly scraped all that glue off the underside of the hoods on my '69 and '73 (with kerosene and my fingernails!) but I recall at least on the '69 that the foam piece on the passenger side was narrower than the one on the driver's side.  Not sure about the 73, but IIRC they weren't the same size either. 

 

Based on other production anaomalies (location of the windshield washer bottle bracket on roundies, amount of schutz squirted up around the parking lights, etc) it wouldn't surprise me that on the production line, Hans or Fritz or whomever grabbed pieces of foam and glued 'em in place by hand. 

 

Someone surely has an early car (Ben?) with at least the glueprint of where the original foam went...

 

cheers

mike

[BillWilliams]

Ben T. is one of the ones at Watkins Glenn who said mine is too big. My center section is the same size as the passenger's side. He said it should be the same size at the driver's side which is the smaller one.

[gliding_serpent2]

I still have the original glue on the underside of my hood also.  two are about 13x19, and the one on the passenger side is 19x15.  All of mine are slightly (0.25 to 0.5 inch) larger than that, but I suspect some error from the factory.  I did research on this very forum and this sizing was consistent, and some felt that small variations (pieces not always square) was part of the human reality. 

 

I just ordered a new set from Blunt and it came with a 19x13, 19x15, and a larger A shaped piece.  I cut that to make the second 19x13.  

[mac]

+ with Ben.

Right side is ~3" wider.

mac.

[BillWilliams]

If I could find a way to remove the three inches from my center section I would but I am afraid I may do more harm than good. It is the three inches from the trailing side I need to remove. Maybe one day...

[Buckeye]

I just measured mine and confident are original:

Driver side: 20.0"h x 13.5"w

Center: 14.5" h x 19.0"w

Passenger side: 19.5"h x 15.75"w

Edited August 6, 2013 by Buckeye

[02fanatic]

I believe my question has been answered....the kits today do not contain two larger pieces (old p/n 51 48 1 825 600) and one narrow piece (old p/n 51 48 1 815 599).  I'm not sure what the new kit p/n is but I believe it may be 51 48 1 825 601.

 

Anyway, since the mystery of proper placement seems to have not been solved, I searched this topic and came across an old post of mine, and it basically says what I still believe to be true....the pic of Bill's Colorado is "correct"...the passenger side foam is the same size as the one in the center (which is pushed all the way "forward")...only it is turned 90-degrees and fits perfectly between the passenger side support and the edge of the bonnet like in Bill's pic.

 

The distance between the left and right hood (or bonnet) supports is not the same as you all know, and if the narrow foam piece is installed on the passenger side it will leave a gap and not fit well....do you really think the Germans would ever design something mis-matched so as to leave a gap, when simply turning the foam 90-degrees fits perfectly? :-)

 

Well, maybe this issue has never been entirely settled, but as far as I recall my very original '73tii had the larger piece on the passenger side that matched the center piece (only turned 90-degrees).  I remember this because when I ordered a set of foam pieces from Bavarian Autosport back in around '97 or so the catalog said you needed two 599's and only one 600 piece...just the reverse of what I needed.  So I ordered two 600's and one 599 and that is what "Atlantik" wears to this day and looks perfect, to me anyway.

 

I seem to remember alot of discussion on this at the time (now this was about 15 years ago) and the result was that what Bill now has is correct, and that's what I had done to my '73tii 15 years ago.

 

That being said, there very well may have been some cars that left the factory with narrow pieces on both sides of the supports, but my research did not match this.

 

Well, I am getting older so maybe I've missed something, but I really thought this issue had been solved long ago...apparently not.

 

Now, I guess I will go take a look at my '74 Inka parts car that "I know" is original and see what is under the bonnet!  I will report back.

 

And here's a link to previous discussions:

 

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/58241-correct-under-hood-insulation-location/

 

John

Edited August 6, 2013 by 02fanatic

[BillWilliams]

John, what I am hearing folks say is the two smaller pieces go: 1. on the passenger side, 2. in the center, (turned in the other direction).

 

Then the one larger section goes on the drivers side.

 

EDIT: John caught my error here. The larger side goes on the passenger side. Thank you John.

Edited August 7, 2013 by BillWilliams

[gliding_serpent2]

John, what I am hearing folks say is the two smaller pieces go: 1. on the passenger side, 2. in the center, (turned in the other direction).

Then the one larger section goes on the drivers side.

Take a look at my 73tii. My dad was the original owner. He removed the original rotten insulation himself, but never got around to the glue. Drivers side and centre 19x13 (portrait and landscape respectivly) and passangers side 19x15 (portrait). Most dimensions had slight error.

The final conclusion of the last old post on this topic was that "hanz and fritz" did not cut these exactly, so there is lots of subtle changes car to car.

[lilmo]

If originality is what you're going for, I'd say material is more important than precise size/location.  That said, my guess is that the gents on the line had a roll or two about 480mm wide and maybe a template or something they used to cut the stuff to fit.  That's what I'd do in similar circumstances. Bet they thought about it a little bit less than us.  

[BillWilliams]

Here is the old thread I was looking for.

 

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/73085-question-for-the-purist-shift-boot-and-hood-insulation/?hl=hood%20insulation