engine and drivetrain What's fair?

[72touring]

As many of you may know, I'm in the process of selling my Touring. I got a few responses from my recent Craigslist ad, but I still own the car. So my question to this community is what's a fair price here? Don't worry, you're not going to hurt my feelings. I realize that this car needs some bodywork and paint, but I also know that first, it's a Touring; second, it's a tii; and third, it's has a new (and quite amazing) motor. I also have a funny feeling that this car will end up being sold to someone not on this forum. Just a hunch. So let me know your thoughts/advice. Thanks in advance. The text from the ad as it last ran:

"FOR SALE: 1972 BMW 2000tii Touring. VIN# 3422783 in Verona. A rare car brought over to the US in 2002 from Amsterdam. 4-speed.Less than 2,000 miles on a complete engine rebuild by Bill Watson of Road Rockets fame. Engine output is 165 hp; with lightweight, high compression(10.75-1), enlarged diameter, forged aluminum pistons; Increased engine displacement to 2127cc; Pertronix electronic ignition; Schrick cam; overhauled and calibrated fuel injection pump; dedicated high output coils (1 output per cylinder); stainless steel header assembly; 2002 Turbo exhaust system. Silicon Garage radiator.

Interior is clean with black vinyl/gray fabric inserts. No holes in any interior panels. The standard crack in dashboard. Aiwa radio/CD with iPod input on faceplate. Infinity speakers mounted in underdash panels. Heater core recently redone. Personal wood wheel.

There is rust on the corners of the hood, on one rear wheel arch, below rear bumper ends, and at both front jack points on the rocker panels. Pirelli P-400s on ATS wheels.

This car was set for a restoration, and comes with many new/extra parts including a clean, rust-free hood, rear bumper center section, rear tail and license plate lights, crack-free euro tii dashboard, door brakes, and more.

The story on this car...

http://www.bayarea02.com/features/importing/touring.html

$16,500. Serious only. Email me with questions, or to take a look at this fast and fun car, and thanks for your interest." End of ad.

[c.d.iesel]

no mention about brakes, suspension, bushings, electrics,

tires , plus MINUS the needed body repairs ??? ? ? ? ?

sounds like max $8,000 - being generous for the rare

body style - if you like Tourings , unfortunate about not being able to

recoupe the cost of motor and pile of parts -

as you asked - just one mann's opinion

BUT , as always - all boils down to finding someone

who feels that what ever the price , that it's a bargain to them.

[SamAdams]

Did you see the Riviera blue Touring that sold on ebay recently? $10,500 and alot of rust showing. No pics were provided (but I did request some) of areas where rust is known to hide. It did have nice Sportpak seats though.

So my opinion-you are in the ballpark-maybe a little high due to the rust. If I was interested in it I would use that as a haggle point.

Everything is subjective though.

[BillWilliams]

(nt)

[72touring]

Bill, thanks. The case of BELUGA CAVIAR 000 is in the mail...

[BillWilliams]

The blue one that sold for almost 11k is half the car your's is.

Your motor is almost worth what that car sold for.

[SamAdams]

I think Bill is correct. Did you see the ebay car? That bumped the value up of my Touring for sure. I increased the value of my Touring with Hagerty. I do think you are in the ballpark but if I was buying I would try to get a break on the price due to the rust.

The engine is definitely a plus.

[MikeinNC]

How many tourings are there here in the US, and yours is a Tii. Front fenders are $515 each, grills for your car are $500 each side, rear hatch is $2000, and on and on.

Plus its the best of all colors for a touring Verona, but then again I am biased No way you could duplicate your car for $18k If you will sell it for $8k I will come out and get it

Good luck Paul

[SamAdams]

Hey Mike at $8,000 you would have to bet me to it. LOL

[dirk2602]

If you want to generate serious interest in the 16 to 18 range, you will have to address the rust / paint issues, swap out that dash and fix the other minor cosmetics. Once, you do that, you can probably ask in the low 20's, which is more or less what they go for in Europe.

You will have to be patient though and advertise it on the correct sites. Tourings are a cult within a cult, and in the US, they are unknown outside of this forum.

If you don't fix it first, you'll only get calls from bargain hunters who are willing and able to work on it themselves.

[Benz02]

As a rule of thumb, I almost always deduct 20-25 percent of what someone is asking as a ballpark offer. So, that would make a fair offer on your car 12K. However, I think that's a bit low considering all that's been done to it and its rarity in the US. So,say 14K rock bottom price, try for 15. Like the others here, I think it's worth a lot more that that, but we're all a little jaded. Good luck.

Ben

[AndyS]

I sold one for 8500. bought it for 12k, lol. I have another one(ugly) I wouldn't sell it for less than 4500. But as my daddy always said "It's only worth what someone will pay for it." I can see the touring owners all wanting it to be worth a fortune, if it needs stuff it isn't. I hope you get a lot for it. I think I am going to flare mine and make everyone nuts, lol!

[bluedevils]

Easy 30K

[Delia]

In all fairness, it's not the car, it's the market.

In the Fall of the year, you won't likely be selling a car anywhere except locally, so count out all the Easterners looking for a cool driver for the summer.

The local market in the Bay Area is kinda flat and I won't tell you how much I sold my '73tii for a mere two months ago.

The election the economy and the availability of credit is slowing down sales as well.

You car is amazing, but you may have focused too intently on the engine. Bill Watson's engines are legendary here in the Bay Area among 02-ers, but not so much among the uninitiated. Further, I think a five-speed and LSD would be in order performance and highway cruising. Finally, the bodywork needs to be finished to a high standard and complement the package.

Finding a buyer who is flush enough to take up the charge of completing your well intended beginnings then reward you for your efforts and expense may be a challenge.

I learned a long time ago that no one who spends $20K on the restoration of an 02 should immediately expect to extract $20K as an end result.

As is, I think it's easily worth $10-$15K.

Add another $5K for a five-speed and LSD, then another $6-$8K for rust repair, paint/miscellaneous and you'll have a car worth $16-$18K.

Bottom line: If it's not hurting you to hold onto it, I recommend holding on to it. If you want to sell it, hold out until you find an enthusiast buyer who you know will appreciate your efforts.

Delia

[72touring]

Thanks, everyone, for all the pearls of wisdom. Again, they're most appreciated. I'll keep you posted...