VIN question or was I suckered??

[LittleLuis]

Hey Guys,

I recently purchased a 1973 Tii, at least I was told it was. And that's how it's registered. However when I check the VIN(2709250) on this site it comes up as a 1971Tii. Could this be a mistake? Is there somewhere else to confirm this? Are 1973's more desirable than 1971? Have I been duped by this "reputable dealer" Would I be wrong to out him on this site? I'm a little pissed off with other issues with the car and now I smell something fishy.

LL-

http://www.bmw-02-club.de/fgnr.htm

[jrhiddle]

Two questions. Does the engine have the plastic intake runners and does the engine VIN match the body VIN? Engine VIN is stamped on a shelf just aft of the starter. If both these conditions match, you have a 71. It's possible to have a 71 body if a PO swapped engines with a 73 which has the metal intake runners. The car would still be listed as a 71 nevertheless.

Jim

[Davo]

Your car appears to be a European spec 2002tii that was manufactured around April of 1972.The beginning number series for the calendar year of 1972 was 2707294 and ended in Dec. at 2716019

[jrhiddle]

Forgot to mention that there were two models of tii's - the 71 and the 73. The 71 models covered about two and a half years of production until mid 1973. My car was fabricated in April of 1973 but is considered a 71 model. The 73 models changed from round to square tail lights so the summer of 73 is the dividing line for the roundies and the squaries. You may have a car built in 73 but is listed as a 71 model. Check the FAQ for the German gentleman that will give you the date of manufacture.

Jim

[ray_]

If it's a euro as the VIN suggests, it originally had the rear license plate lights in the bumper rather than on the rear clip. One would think the speedo would read in km's also.

Euro's are a bit more sought after IMO.

In '73 the front bumper brackets distanced the bumper farther from the body. Not many cosmetic differences between '72 and '73.

'73 was the last good year for 2002's anyway...

;-)

Go ahead and list the seller, let him defend himself.

Cheers,

Ray

[74tiiGolf]

'73 was the last good year for 2002's anyway...

;-)

Ray

Is that fire I see you playing with?

Matthew

[ray_]

'73 was the last good year for 2002's anyway...

;-)

Ray

Is that fire I see you playing with?

Matthew

Tii's excepted.

;-)

Cheers,

Ray

[HarryPR]

'73 was the last good year for 2002's anyway...

;-)

Ray

Is that fire I see you playing with?

Matthew

Tii's excepted.

;-)

Cheers,

Ray

I still see fire......

[ray_]

'73 was the last good year for 2002's anyway...

;-)

Ray

Is that fire I see you playing with?

Matthew

Tii's excepted.

;-)

Cheers,

Ray

I still see fire......

Lissen here, ya wheel hoarder...

;-)

Cheers,

Ray

[shipm_8]

Luis,

Drop info.konzernarchiv@bmw.de and/or andreas.harz@partner.bmw.de a line with your VIN and they'll do a search for you.... manufacture date, delivery date, original color. Hope this helps.

William

[Kidasters]

Hey Guys,

I recently purchased a 1973 Tii, at least I was told it was. And that's how it's registered. However when I check the VIN(2709250) on this site it comes up as a 1971Tii. Could this be a mistake? Is there somewhere else to confirm this? Are 1973's more desirable than 1971? Have I been duped by this "reputable dealer" Would I be wrong to out him on this site? I'm a little pissed off with other issues with the car and now I smell something fishy.

LL-

http://www.bmw-02-club.de/fgnr.htm

Nothing fishy. The german website is telling you that you have a "Model 71" tii, just like it tells me that I have a "Model 71" 2002. The VIN on my car is 2587935, and after sending that to the BMW Archivist - I know it was delivered to the US January 30, 1973 to Hoffman Motors.

Like other postings have said - if you want the whole skinny - send an e-mail to the Mobile Tradition archivist.

Ken

[Mike Self]

2002s of all ilks (Euro and USA) cars built before about April 1971 (short rear bumper ends, silver center instruments, no knee-high black rub strips down the sides) were lumped together by the factory as the same model.

In April or so 1971, BMW "freshened" the '02 design a bit by adding the lower rub strips, putting rubber strips on the front and rear bumpers, changing the instrument faces, etc etc. Buncha little changes. The factory refers to these cars as "Modell 71" cars. They were called that thru the end of roundie production in August 1973.

Squarelight cars were first produced in Sept 1973, and were referred to as "Modell 73" cars by the factory, even though they were 1974 model year cars in the US. To further confuse matters, USA cars built for the 1975 and 1976 model years were referred to by BMW as "Modell 75" and "Modell 76" cars. There was never a "Modell 74" USA car.

One thing that confuses VIN identification on all 2002s is that the factory kept track of 'em by calendar year (1 Jan-31 Dec) while here in the US we track 'em by model year (1 Sept - 31 Aug). Thus my 1973 2002, assembled in Dec 1972 according to the factory is 1972 production, but according to titling and details, is definintely a 1973 model year car.

Hope that helps clear up the confusion...

mike

[JackF]

More on what Mike added. In the "old days" when these cars were new, ALL new car models were rolled out by all manufacturers in late Sept. So my turbo which was a Sept 74 production is listed as a 75.

It was pretty neat back in the day because there would be all this suspense around the introduction of the new cars and then the inevitable and animated comparison of each manufacturers offerings. Think about what that would mean today. Everybody takes the wrappers off on the same day and no one had sneak previews. Pretty exciting really. There was heavy traffic to the dealers just to see the cars and they sold a ton of cars then. You would watch the evening news with Huntley and Brinkley and see "See the USA in your Chevrolet..." ads as opposed to todays Get a Boner ads

BTW, I define "old days" as before anything flashed or beeped at you. Traffic lights flashed, phones, attached to wires, actually rang and there was no instant communication. the next time you are at a car show or vinatge event, find the old magzine sellers and buy a copy of C&D or R&T from the 60's. While reading it, imagine how you would do all this mechanical and restoration work back when these cars were new.

[Blau02(MN)]

You can also add another layer of complexity with the DMV. My car, 1674202 was manufactured April 16, 1970. I have the window "sticker" that shows it as a 1970 car, but the original licensing paperwork has the car listed as a 1971. I cannot recall the sale date, but it was probably a DMV error.

[Mike Self]

If it was built in April, it most likely didn't arrive on these shores until late May-early June...and that was at the POE. By the time it got to a dealer it was late June or July...and if it sat around long enough so that it wasn't sold until after 1 Sept (this cutoff date varies by state) and since it looked exactly like the early 71s, it was titled as a '71. Not uncommon at all back then to title a leftover as the next year's car.

I have a '59 Renault that was actually assembled in March 1959 but wasn't sold until 30 Nov 59 (in Florida). Since it was sold after 1 Oct, Florida titled it as a '60. I had the title changed back to a 59 when I could show the DMV its actual assembly date. You probably could too if you wished.

cheers

mike