02er Ethics

[Brandon]

For originality reasons I would go with the original sunroof cut off of another car. Also an option is an after market sunroof. Modern aftermarket units are way better than those flip up things of the past. A lady I work with had the dealer install an aftermarket sunroof in her 2005 Chrystler 300 (not sure if they sell these down under or not), and it looked like the factory installed unit. It is a power moonroof that slides back fully and pops up just like the factory sunroof. The installation inside and out looked flawless....so you've got that option as well.

[Steve73tii]

I read somewhere (was it McCartney?) that installing a sunroof by cutting through the roof pillars compromises the integrity of the shell and makes it hard to refit the glass if you don't get the rewelded pillar perfect -- Is this the case? So the right way to do it would be to weld in just the top of the roof panel -- I think that would be skinning the panel as Skippy posted? It's all out of my expertise, as I'm an untrained rhesus monkey with the MIG, but I thought someone should raise those points.

My opinion (and I'm a newbie here): I'd want to keep the finished car as safe, tight, leak-free, and worth as much or more (especially when spending a couple month's salary on a resto) and be able to sell it with a clear conscience. That being said, I actually really like factory sunroof '02s and I'd be looking to trade for one.

Steve

[mattmcginn]

Aftermarket stuff looks cheesy and is generally junk.

You can do an original sunroof WITHOUT cutting the pillars.

Deskin the roof-cut the seam weld along the c pillar and drill the spot welds in the drip rail. I have done it a bunch of times.

Make a small cut through the outer skin at the top of the A pillar-its the only non-factory cut you will need to make:

Here we are taking the skin off of a tii we did about 4 years ago:

This is what it looks like with no roof but with the support structure still there:

As the Haynes manual says, installation is reverse of removal:

Done this way, all the window apertures remain the same, but we do before and after measurements just to be sure nothing shifts while the skin is off. Also-the roof panel you are installing is a totally managable size ans shape and will only fit one way due to the crested shape of the roof structure.

Ifs not hard, just time consuming-a competent restorer or talented amateur with the proper basic tools can easily do it. Done this way, the proper way, its just a panel replacement exercise.

ALL 2002's are built with the drain provisions in the substructure of the roof. You will need to route the front drains down the A-pillar and out to ground. The rears should be repositioned as shown:

The factory stupidly ran the drains into the rocker panel. We reroute them around the tower and to ground through the trunk floor on each side.

Note: pictures are not all of the same car-they are three different vehicles.

DO IT RIGHT OR DONT BOTHER!

[Guest Anonymous]

sunroofs are lots of fun, I use mine even in the winter some times

[Biscuit3]

Kick ass, Matt. Thanks for the detail descripts and photos. Can I import my car to you? You look like you know what's going on and it's going to be really hard to find a panel beater I can trust when the time comes. I'm really up in the air about this subject. Perhaps I should ride in a car with a sunroof to get the experience first. It's like what someone mentioned to me earlier, you have to try before you buy!

[DukeRimmer]

The pillar cuts have to be perfect, and also staggered, (Cut half way through, drop four inches, cut the other side, and weld the overlaps), but it's still the best alternative. Staggering and overlaping gives you a bond that does not compromise the strength of the post.

It is a sad fact of life that welding burns away all coatings from the area of the weld. Weld through primers promise to eliminate this problem, but I believe they only postpone the inevitable. So welds that can not be cleaned and sealed from both sides are seeds of rust.

Cold hard objects collect moisture from humid air. If your windsheild is fogged, your roof and other sheet metal parts are wet too. The worse place to have an unsealed weld is where water and dust can collect, such as rockers, !/4s around the wheel opening, and roof drip rails. Replacing front panels and rear panels does not compromise integrity because you can fully seal both sides of the joints. Cars that have had inaccesible welds want to be stored indoors.

Reskinning a roof saves the hassle of positioning the roof for precise openings, but it takes 800% longer, does not enhance strength, and plants the seed of rust.

I don't care for the look of aftermarket moonroof, but that does not make it wrong. Many guys don't see blind welds the way I do, but that does not make my way wrong.

This has all been just my humble opinion.

[02fanatic]

Looks like you've gotten some good advice....here's what I would consider given the options: The cost of a good working/upgraded A/C system will be waaaaay cheaper than modifying the structural integrity of the car and all the ancillary mods.

Unless you just "must have" a sunroof, I'd seriously consider leaving the car as a non-sunroof car. I have to admit my initial desire for a s/r, but after "collecting" '02's over the years, and having both, I sort of lean naturally toward a non-sunroof '02 for several reasons: more headroom, cleaner look, less maintenance - and there WILL BE maintenance with a sunroof!!!, cleaner headliner (no water spots), no roof drain problems.

But it's your car, so it's your choice...good luck whatever you decide.

And keep the color the same!!! :-)

John

[PatAllen]

The factory stupidly ran the drains into the rocker panel. We reroute them around the tower and to ground through the trunk floor on each side.

DO IT RIGHT OR DONT BOTHER!

You know what...i discovered that my 1992 E36 suffer of the same stupid thing, the sunroof drains just empty themselves into the rockers...

see my blog about it...

Pat Allen

[BarryA]

to get a semi-factory moonroof, but it's gonna take a LOT of work, and the parts aren't going to be easy to find.

E30's (and maybe contemporary E28's) with factory installed sunroofs had a glass sunroof panel option, but from what one of the old-timer parts guys at the local dealer tells me, it was a very expensive, dealer-install option ($600 for the glass panel, plus installation - 15 years ago). I've been keeping an eye open for a couple of years for one of the glass panels for my E21 and have seen exactly ONE installed in a E30 out of all the cars I've seen in that time period.

In addition, from the E21/E28 generation on, BMW switched over from the the Golde units that were used in '02's and E3's to Webasto slide and pop-up sunroofs, so the only way to make it all work would be to adapt the Webasto parts to an '02 roof - much, much more difficult than the preferred '02 skin swap Matt showed in his post.

If you don't mind going aftermarket, I remember the local Honda dealer had a number of Accord coupes on the lot with aftermarket moonroofs around 1988-89 - Honda didn't offer the coupes with any sort of factory sun or moonroof, so they were all aftermarket. My wife almost bought one at the time - the roof was a very clean installation, electricly operated.

[SteveJ]

About the only time I use the sunroof is when I don't have the roofrack on and I need to transport something long like a 2x4 or some PVC pipes.

At least for me, I rarely use the sunroofs on my cars.

My wife's current car has no sunroof and as a result there is a smidge more headroom in the car. May be important if you are wearing a helmet for autocross or track schools.

[punchesdfw]

Aftermarket stuff looks cheesy and is generally junk. DO IT RIGHT OR DONT BOTHER!

Wow Matt. I never took you for snob. Many of us don't have a complete professional shop at our disposal or an unlimited budget. The webasto unit in Nick's car works just fine and doesn't rust the rockers like the factory unit. And I wouldn't call it "Cheesy." Maybe it's not your style, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

[DukeRimmer]

(nt)

[HarryPR]

It depends on what you are going to do with it. An originality snob may say never install an aftermarket sunroof. But I say, do what you want. When we built Nick's car, we went for fun not originality. It didn't come with a sunroof, or a fuel injected M20, or a CD player, or racing seats, or Volvo brakes, or Bilsteins, or.., I think you get the point. Unless you are going for a Concours restoration, do what you want.

I agree with you 100%, Mr. Punches...

BTW, Nick's car is looking great!

[Biscuit3]

I certainly think this discussion opened my eyes up a little bit! Maybe I won't be getting a sunroof now. I took my car to the mechanic to get new shocks today and discussed getting rid of my solex carby and put in a Weber, with my mechanic. He went off his nut! Told me to keep everything original but to me, in this day and age, it certainly is hard to do that. I know it's not much, but for an example, when I did my instrument cluster rehab last month, the light bulbs that were in there were BMW ones! Sure would be a long and hard process to get another set of them these days.

[Vroomer]

discussed getting rid of my solex carby and put in a Weber, with my mechanic.

The Solex ain't that bad.