Where is the value?

[oldbugr]

New to the 2002 ownership. I recently purchased my first 2002. It is a 1973 standard with a sunroof, four-speed, and original black. My tastes run from a 67 SS Chevelle, a 57 Belair convertible resto mod with an aftermarket frame with an LSA to a couple of air cooled 911's.

 

All my cars but one 911 have been a glass out rotisserie frame off.  The 57 and one of the 911's are not built to be original. 

 

This BMW I am lining out the plan for it and will start in Oct a total glass out down to metal prep. My question is concerning the value of these cars today and in the future. 

 

Is there more value in restoring it stock or if I decide to go with a E42?  Personally I hate carbortors. To have about 50 more hp and fuel injection sure sound like a winner. 

 

But is that the best way to go? The car will never be raced. The mission for this car is to throw a 5 speed which I've sourced to make it a fun driver. The stock motor would do a good job but is that really the way to go? 

 

Looking forward to opniouns on this. 

 

[TobyB]

If you want value, find something rarer than a 2002-

you'll never get your money back out.  Jag XK120, bonds,

stocks, real estate, politics, that sort of thing.

 

That said, if you want to do a reasonable 2002, as a car, to go have fun with,

build an M10 with 10:1 compression, 

dual Weber 40's and put a 5 speed and 3.91 diff in it.  That'll always be

a solid value with good interest.

And it'll be more powerful than a tii, more tunable, and more fun.

And a good representation of what the car was designed to be, and 

evolved to be fun.  Suspension, too- stock is good for rutted dirt roads,

but it can be made to handle with springs, shocks, bushings and bars.  All bolt- ons.

 

I have had several cars with the M42 (still have one) and while it's a cute engine,

it's not all that.  Relatively long stroke, small bore, and heavy flywheel take fun out of it.

Its EFI is old, with a flapper door and no OBD2, so it's not a big improvement on well- 

tuned carbs.  If you could get an S42, at 2 liters, THAT might be fun.  But rumor has it

that they put them into EV1's right before they were sent to the crusher.

 

If you really want EFI, inject an M10.  It's not hard, it'll be a bit better- behaving than the

DCOEs, but the uniqueness of it will be off- putting to many, simply because it'll have to be reverse engineered.

 

t

buys low and then never sells.

[oldbugr]

That is the stuff I need to hear being new to the BMW world. Sounds like a lighter flywheel like on the 911's is the way to go. I'm at 5000 ft here in Reno so I can get away with the higher compression. 

 

Next question, where would you ship the motor to have it done? 

 

I've wanted a 2002 for years. The car will easily become my favorite. 

 

Thank you for the solid advice. Scratch the M42 after hearing the downside. 

[Mike Self]

Another consideration, although relatively minor at this point considering your plans for the car:  the color.  Black 2002s are very uncommon, especially roundies.  I suspect yours has been repainted, and I'll bet you can find the original color somewhere hidden--in the engine compartment, under the trunk floor etc.  You can also e-mail BMW Classic at the factory in Germany, quote the car's VIN and they can tell you its assembly date, where it was delivered (to the US importer or overseas delivery) and its original color.  

 

I've refurbished two 2002s over the years and they both turned out well without a rotisserie restoration.  There are tricks to repainting without removing the windshield and backlight that will give an invisible part line.  

 

And leave the M10 engine in the car.  Tweak it up with compression, a cam, carbs even a MegaSquirt EFI, but don't do an engine swap.  Nice, unmolested 02s bring good $$ when sold, ad are easier to sell  than those with major mods--engine swaps etc.  

 

They are way fun to drive even stock...

 

And BTW, welcome to the 02 fraternity/sorority!

 

mike

 

PS--be sure and register it on the FAQ roster...

[markmac]

BAT, is a pretty good (easy) source to see what 2002's (including tii's, turbo's and the like) are (and have been) selling/sold for.

 

If your car truly is a 'forever' car, do what you want and what Toby suggested is pretty spot on.  That being said, if your car turns out not to be a 'forever' car and you go to sell it, don't be disappointed that you don't get your money back out of it.  The market has (I say has) been pretty strong, not so much now in my opinion, it has softened up quite a bit.

 

The cars the (usually) sell for the highest dollars are original ones or ones restored to a high level (to OE).  With that though you aren't going to get the driving pleasure out of it that you with one that had some mods.

 

Just my opinion, I have a few years of fooling with them (45 to be exact and how friggin scary is that number....jeeeze).  Good luck with your project.

[TobyB]

I'd tweak that just a bit- given the cost of paint, especially, there's no reason NOT to restore the car to a 

'high but reasonable' level, then add some patina by use, and maintain it well.

It seems like there's a demand for 'pretty, fun, reliable drivers' and they have always been expensive-

meaning, people want them and are willing to pay for them.

So things like adding bigger brakes, (with the originals in a crate) even rear discs (again, drums in a crate)

and other bolt- ons and careful additions (electronic ignition and quality aftermarket springs)

may pull the 'value' down from the absolute 

peak- but there's a pretty high plateau where demand is high, buyers are plentiful, and good cars are scarce.

So selling becomes pretty easy.

 

Quote

BAT, is a pretty good (easy) source to see what 2002's (including tii's, turbo's and the like) are (and have been) selling/sold for by people who have completely taken leave of their senses.

Just like the televised auctions of old, BiteaTurkey doesn't attract 'normal' buyers- sure, sometimes things go for

reasonable prices, but with the 1% building swimming pools out of Jeffersons, if two of them get in a dick swinging

contest, the relevance of 'value' to the object of their affections goes out the window.

There are still tens of thousands of these cars out there- with very few exceptions, they'll never be 'rare'.

 

t

 

[markmac]

Hmnnnn.  With regards to BAT, yes there are a few cases if crazy (stupid IMO) bidding on just a few cars.  Anyone thinking they were going to pay $150k for a 2002 pretty much any 2002 and reflip it for $250k is sadly mistaken, at least at this point in time.  

 

To the original poster on value and such, spend a few minutes thumbing through these, some nice o2's that were well bought by people who 'have not lost complete leave of their senses.....'

 

BMW 2002 For Sale - BaT Auctions

BRINGATRAILER.COM

---

Browse and bid online for the chance to own a BMW 2002 at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online.

 

[oldbugr]

[oldbugr]

The car is a real factory black car. That is one of the reasons this one talked to me. Thanks to all of you who responded to my post. All the information has pointed me in the right direction. I will restore close to original, with the exception of adding the five-speed. 

 

Just added a Weber 32/36 to replace the gummed up Solox. Motor really liked it. PerTronix is in the future to get rid of the points. 

The car has very little rust. At least from what I. can see. Will know better after the media blast. Love this community already! 

[saaron]

Black roundie is super cool.  I’ve seen very few in real life.  

 

You got the experts’ expert advice, so I don’t have much to add, other than have fun with it, and post pics your adventures with it.  

 

Welcome aboard.

 

Scott

[VWScott]

"Man they ain't nothin' wrong with points"...

[markmac]

Sounds like a good plan to me.  Black is a special, somewhat rare color on o2's (anyone of the variety).  The good news is that it is a rare color and I think would be sought after......the bad news is that it either looks really good.....or not so much.  Not much in-between with black cars.

[SydneyTii]

On 5/10/2024 at 2:28 AM, TobyB said:

There are still tens of thousands of these cars out there

And how great is that, tells you everything you need to know about these great little cars and the nuts that own them, me obviously in that demographic 😜

[oldbugr]

14 hours ago, VWScott said:

"Man they ain't nothin' wrong with points"...

No you’re right points are fine. At 70, I need to make my cars easy to deal with for my kids. They will be the ones that will eventually take over my cars. None of them are mechanical. With the way the government is trying to push all of us into electric, I worry that as the years go on it may become hard to find people or parts for all of our old cars.

[oldbugr]

On 5/9/2024 at 10:16 AM, markmac said:

Hmnnnn.  With regards to BAT, yes there are a few cases if crazy (stupid IMO) bidding on just a few cars.  Anyone thinking they were going to pay $150k for a 2002 pretty much any 2002 and reflip it for $250k is sadly mistaken, at least at this point in time.  

 

To the original poster on value and such, spend a few minutes thumbing through these, some nice o2's that were well bought by people who 'have not lost complete leave of their senses.....'

 

BMW 2002 For Sale - BaT Auctions

BRINGATRAILER.COM

---

Browse and bid online for the chance to own a BMW 2002 at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online.

This was very insightful. Thank you.