1974 1602 imported from Guatemala release bearing headache

[Ron C]

Hello all.  I'm on the final leg of getting all parts together for a clutch job on my 1602 8 bolt flywheel.  Boy, have I spent some money trying to work my way around the 200mm clutch.  I have purchased a 215mm flywheel/pressure plate/clutch with NUMBEROUS release bearings.  The release bearing WILL NOT fit my clutch fork and are too short.  So.. I sourced from overseas a brand new 200mm pressure plate/clutch disc.  I'm damn near contemplating using the old throw out bearing since it was not making any noise and spins quietly.  But IF I wanted to install a new release bearing, can I use a different fork?  If I go with the 215mm setup, the 215mm release bearing fits the clutch fork but appears to be too shallow to depress the pressure plate.  Can I install a different fork that the original 200mm one?  Any advice would be great!  Photos to follow.  

Edited June 2, 2023 by Ron C

[tech71]

Sorry for the headache,  here's a link to an NOS release bearing that looks the same as yours and carries the same # on it

The pics are of a fork taken from a 76 2002 for comparison, dont really see any diff from yours...

whatever you do, judging from the oil build up around the trans if would be a good idea to change  the engine  rear main seal while its apart

BMW 2000 2002 Clutch Bearing 3151-142-202 ref. 21511200628 F&S 1965-1968

WWW.EBAY.COM

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Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BMW 2000 2002 Clutch Bearing 3151-142-202 ref. 21511200628 F&S 1965-1968 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by tech71

[TobyB]

If you're using the later 215 clutch, I can't come up with any reason that the later

release lever won't work.  Have you checked to see if the pivot in the transmission is different/

worn out/ broken?

 

The 200mm clutches have been a pain in the butt to get parts for since I started messing around

with these cars... rather a few years back, now.

 

t

would fabricate something and not look back.

[tech71]

4 hours ago, Ron C said:

If I go with the 215mm setup, the 215mm release bearing fits the clutch fork but appears to be too shallow to depress the pressure plate.  Can I install a different fork that the original 200mm one?

Dont see why not but I cant determine if the 2 systems even used a different fork.

Since you already have a new 200mm disc and pressure plate why not run it?

Not returnable right?

Buy the release bearing I posted or not... Keep the 215mm stuff for later or sell

 Again... however you decide to go, change the engine rear main seal while you can.

Trans input shaft would be a good idea as well.

 

[Ron C]

Thanks TobyB and tech71.  I’m going back with the 200mm and I’ll use the 215mm stuff in the future.  I have three 3 speed  transmissions so what’s a few extra parts.  I’ll have it all buttoned up soon.  

[Mike Self]

FYI, my 6 bolt crankshaft '69 2002 uses the 228mm version of the pressure plate and T/O bearing that your 1600 has, and my T/O bearing was in fine order after 170k miles.  I only installed a new one because they were readily available then (about 20 or so years ago) and it didn't make sense not to buy one.  

 

mike

[Ron C]

Thanks Mike, I figured the old one is fine since it was quite and spins nicely.  I’ve got new seals all they way around so this should be good for some time.  That’s interesting about the 228mm PP.  I bought the 215mm before finding a new 200mm PP and clutch.  The 215mm flywheel would bolt right up, it’s just the clutch arm and bearing don’t seem to match as the bearing isn’t deep enough like the original.   

[Mike Self]

US 2002s up to VIN 1665200 and apparently all 1600s used that coil spring, 3 finger pressure plate (I didn't know this previously), while 2002s changed to the diaphragm style pressure plate at 1665201.  It's interesting that the 215mm flywheel would bolt up to your crankshaft--that means it has an 8 bolt crank.  US 2002s prior to 1665200 have six bolt crankshafts, and I thought that 1600s did also.  Unless your 1600 has a VIN that begins with 156XXXX or 157XXXX, it's not a US version car.   

 

According to my parts book the withdrawal fork arm that goes with the coil spring pressure plate (original to your car) carries the same part number for the 1600 and 2002's that use that pressure plate.  In fact those early 02s actually have an adjustable pushrod, even though the clutch is hydraulically actuated--it's left over from the mechanical linkage used on the 1600s. 

 

And...the part number shown on that release bearing that you cleaned up doesn't match any in my factory parts book--most of 'em begin with a 21 prefix...

 

mike 

[Alexander]

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Edited June 14, 2023 by Alexander

[Alexander]

On 6/2/2023 at 8:46 PM, Mike Self said:

 

 

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Edited June 14, 2023 by Alexander

[Mike Self]

Dang!  Ya learn new stuff every day! Thanks for the correction and explanation.  My '69 was assembled exactly 400 cars before the changeover to the 8 bolt crank and diaphragm clutch, and when I renewed my clutch--has to be close to 20 years ago--it was difficult to find the pressure plate and throwout bearing even then.  But I did find one from a VW specialty parts shop!  The box was dated 1982!   I should have remembered that the coil springs on the 2002 pressure plate are hidden beneath its frame, not inside individual caps.  

 

The factory parts book is very unclear about those early car clutches, and it's even difficult to tell that all 1600s used coil spring pressure plates.  BTW the 1600 pressure plate looks like a larger version of the 9 spring pressure plate used on Renault 1063 and 1093 (4CV and Dauphine respectively) race cars (yes, there were both--the 4CVs ran at Le Mans and the Dauphine actually won the Monte Carlo Rallye outright in 1958--on 850cc!) 

 

Alexander's posting needs to be archived for future reference--and edification.

 

mike

[Alexander]

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Edited June 14, 2023 by Alexander

[Alexander]

On 6/3/2023 at 10:33 PM, Mike Self said:

 

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Edited June 14, 2023 by Alexander

[Lorin]

Excellent info Alexander, thank you. 

[Ron C]

Alexander you have helped me a ton!  I’ve ordered three clutch release bearings and none work.  True, I need the 42.5mm height bearing; however, the one in your photo is the wrong type of attachment clip for my fork.  I tried to lock the bearing in but it was way too loose - unlike the original that has the clips like this one:

if I could fine a 42.5mm bearing with the clips above; I’d be in business.  I love working on these cars.  It’s challenging to source parts but I rebuilt my heater box and it was a success.  I’ve finished the interior and only have a few more thoughts to process before putting the clutch and transmission back in.   I’ve been taking a break from It and reinforcing the subframe on my e46.  Your feedback has helped and hopefully I’ll source the correct bearing or find an arm that fits the 42.5 bearing with that style of clip.