Intercooler Packaging

[Dudeland]

I am thinking about intercoolers, and was looking at air to water intercoolers. 
 

Instead of a lot of plumbing down in front and through the battery tray hole. Could I tuck one on the right hand side and do a fender intake?

 

Does that make sense?

 

I don’t think a/c will work unless I relocate the compressor to the left hand side of the engine, so there will be space for a second radiator.

 

 

[tzei]

Not sure how your layout is going to be but…

1. Charge air plumping volume will be less - good thing.

2. Complexity increases + wear items are introduced.

3. To optimize it will take time and some r&d.

 

with that said I think it’s interesting avenue to go and there is potentially more gains to be had vs. air to air.

[jimk]

To have cooler with a air to water heat exchanger, the water side has to be cool, so an independent cooling system is in the works, radiator, pump, pump controls, etc.

[TobyB]

I'd stay air- air myself- the 2002 is a crossflow, front- mount engine,

and that packaging lends itself pretty well to a crossover arrangement.

 

If you're really hurting for space, you could always bury a couple

of Saab- style intercoolers behind the headlights by removing

the inner fender bulkhead panels  You know,

the ones with the circles embossed in them.  Or even just cut out the circles.

There's a LOT of room there, and it'll get airflow

from the front grilles.  The biggest challenge is fabricating an inner fender

to deflect wheel debris off them.

 

In an ideal universe, I'd pull brake cooling from there, too.

t

 

 

[Dudeland]

Thanks for the replies. 

 

Here is the thing.  Installing the MS means is a big deal. Relocating the battery, and wiring everything is easily a winters work (for me).

 

If I can get  away with using what I have for a season it would allow me to get a bunch of stuff fit, like the hot side, and work out any bugs.   Also the it gets it out of storage.  

 

 

In this scenario, all I do is install a rad, pump and some piping, nothing relocated.  It would also let me instal the manifold,  and exhaust to see if anything else needs to be tweaked.  The only part that would go in the bin if I go with the 3 series manifold is the hat that goes over the TB.  Maybe I would need a seperate boost controller. It may just work fine for my shorter term needs. 

 

The machine shop that I was expecting to use got downsized to pre retirement size, meaning that they got rid of a lot of their equipment, and are largely set up to do LS's and SBC's.  No balancing equipment in sight.  They weren't enthused to take a look a the M10.   This leaves me in limbo around what to do for a built motor, and has me asking myself to contact someone like Patrick.  In either case a built engine is further in the distance that I would like to admit. 

 

 

 

[TobyB]

One of the things I failed at-

you can do this in steps.

Get the car running without the turbo.

 

It's a little bit of duplicate effort, but it gets you a solid N/A tune,

lots of the bugs out, and then you're not worried about cooking

the turbine as you manage timing and fuelling.  

 

I've got a very- shelved project that I need to do this to-

make a T3/4 bypass pipe, and get it running.

THEN bolt on the boost...

 

t

 

[Dudeland]

18 hours ago, TobyB said:

One of the things I failed at-

you can do this in steps.

Get the car running without the turbo.

 

It's a little bit of duplicate effort, but it gets you a solid N/A tune,

lots of the bugs out, and then you're not worried about cooking

the turbine as you manage timing and fuelling.  

 

I've got a very- shelved project that I need to do this to-

make a T3/4 bypass pipe, and get it running.

THEN bolt on the boost...

 

t

 

 

 

The tune with the Holly sniper EFI is good now, or was when I put it away.  I may tweak it a bit, but that is just me being fussy. 

 

I am with you in terms of stages.  I have the necessary supporting mods in place including fueling, heat management and timing control.   The brakes have fresh yellowstuff lignings and a rear disk brake conversion.  205's on all fours, front and rear sway bars, new bushings, brake lines and bearings as well. 

 

C'v's are good, although one is leaking past the inner seal a bit. 

 

The exhaust is built, header and boost valve.  Other than going through the MS conversion, I am good to go.  The sniper will handle boost, but there are little protections for overboost situations. 

 

"nothin to it but to do it"?

 

Regards

[Dudeland]

Something like this maybe?

 

 

 

 

 

 

4" x 12" Water to air charge cooler intercooler kit for turbo and supercharger | eBay

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Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 4" x 12" Water to air charge cooler intercooler kit for turbo and supercharger at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

 

[Dudeland]

This to hold the boost in

 

 

 

 

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[jimk]

3 hours ago, Dudeland said:

Something like this maybe?

 

 

 

 

 

 

4" x 12" Water to air charge cooler intercooler kit for turbo and supercharger | eBay

WWW.EBAY.CA

---

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 4" x 12" Water to air charge cooler intercooler kit for turbo and supercharger at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

 

Nice package.

[Dudeland]

3 hours ago, jimk said:

Nice package.

Not bad I thought.  I think that the pump is a little anemic, but that is easily remedied. Before I pull the trigger, I will get a 6X11" bit of ABS and mock it up under the hood. 

 

So out of the turbo, right angle forward.... left angle into the intercooler...  Intercooler lives above the engine cooling fan area, then a 120 (ish) angle for a straight shot into the hat. 

 

The rad for the intercooler I think can live behind the front spoiler.  7" may be too tall. 

 

I really need to get under the hood and figure out if that works.  

 

What I was also thinking is having it live on top of the valve cover and build an intercooler that blows through like a harmonica (width wise) instead of length wise, It would be a very short shot then between the turbo outlet and the cap. 

 

[jimk]

Not much pump is needed in that circuit.

[Einspritz]

In order to make this more complicated, don't ya want to calculate the charge cooling effect of the proposed intercooler selection given the size of the turbo, the cfm at any rpm, and the boost pressure / temperature?

 

You really need to know the air density in order to calculate how much fuel you're going to need...... Then the BMEP to predict your true HP.

 

Or "parts is parts".

[jimk]

EFI ECU's do the calculations for you with trimming by the O2 control loop.

[Dudeland]

On 12/24/2022 at 11:15 AM, Einspritz said:

In order to make this more complicated, don't ya want to calculate the charge cooling effect of the proposed intercooler selection given the size of the turbo, the cfm at any rpm, and the boost pressure / temperature?

 

You really need to know the air density in order to calculate how much fuel you're going to need...... Then the BMEP to predict your true HP.

 

Or "parts is parts".

The EFI is rated up to 400HP, so don't think I will run out of injector unless I am running more that 2 bar.   I will likely run it off wastegate, which last time I checked will give me about 6 lbs of boost.  

 

I was poking around boost controllers. GFB has a nice one that does some logging, but they are half the price of a good MS3, so I may just try the weakest spring then pull the logs of the map sensor built into EFI to see what we are looking at. 

 

Also I need to check, but I think that I can cut spark if the boost gets too high.   The 2BBL sniper does not  have a boost controller, but it will allow you to link MAP pressure to ignition timing.    This is a failsafe, but it I am not trusting it to cut spark before I am in an overboost situation.  

 

The guy that I got the setup from insisted that the wastegate was so large that boost creep could never be an issue. I can't remember the brand, but the model was something like "Godzilla"... LOL.  ...

 

Didn't Godzilla level Tokyo...

 

Regards